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DeeTee’s NVH Improvement Projects

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  • #76
    Had the same chasing rattles. I used left over battery clamp bar to stiffen it. My drive way is 4km bad gravel so rattles drive me insane.

    IMG_20220731_170554.jpg
    1993 3.0 V6 Pajero - SOLD
    2001 3.2 Di-D Pajero - SOLD
    2005 Touareg R5 2.5 TDi - SOLD
    2007 Pajero LWB 3.2 Di-D

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    • #77
      Hey NFT5 - did you fix your morning rattle?

      Thanks 4ePikanini. This is the answer! Nice work! I guess living down a 4km bad gravel driveway will drive you to fix those rattles.

      NX GLX, Auto-mate Pro, Nudge bar, Stedi Light Bar, Vortex Racks, Sandgrabbas, Nautia Pocket, GotyaCovered and Wheelskins Covers, Konis, Aux Lithium Battery & Solar Panel, Kaon Table, Custom Rear, Less NVH than Factory

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      • #78
        Originally posted by DeeTee View Post
        Hey NFT5 - did you fix your morning rattle?

        No such luck.

        It moves, but not much and not enough to make the rattle.
        Chris

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        • #79
          Awesome job on the details of manufacture and installation of brackets.I hope the guys get the benefit out of installing them.Just remember the cable ties and brackets go hand in hand to get the dash to be quiet as possible.

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          • #80
            Hi Deetee, Any progress in reducing the noise while crossing the expansion joint? When I go across the railways ,the heavy dull sound hurts my ear. Thats why I dont add any thing on the roof in hopes of letting all noise go out instead of keeping them in the cab. So far the solution for me is to open a bit the window.
            My20 Nx Gls Graphite | Tow Bar| Plates Sum,Trans&Rear| Munji Egr| Provent Catch Can| Automate Pro| Rock Slider| Paddle Shift| 265 70 r17 Goodyear Silenttrac| Koni 90&88 plus Kings| Tuningkit Race​​​​​

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            • #81
              Cheers John. Now that I've done some driving on dirt roads with a bracketed and ziptied dash I can report that the dash is now very solid and it does not shake at all. I'm very happy with the results.

              Hi Ozzz, no work on this noise source yet - but I have been doing a lot of reading and I think I might have found a good approach from one of the graybeards over on diymobileaudio. I'll post up when I have more info but the strategy is to tackle the underside of the wheel arch - probably with Septone paint and MLV. I'm not sure exactly how to do this yet but I'm planning to take my front struts out to change the coils and the shock settings so during that job I'll have good access to the whole arch and I'll do the NVH work at the same time.

              I'll probably also remove the MLV I put in on top of the wheel arch as it didn't really work and I think I now understand why it didn't work: insufficient coverage. I couldn't get to the whole wheel arch on top, and mass sound deadening material is not effective if there's not total - or at least almost total - coverage as the sound pressure waves get through the gaps. The wheel arch panel is definitely resonating so Glenno's work putting stage 1 down might help reduce resonance.

              I now understand I made a big mistake when I did the rear and I'm part way through re-doing the whole rear cargo area. My Paj looks like a bomb went off inside it at the moment.
              NX GLX, Auto-mate Pro, Nudge bar, Stedi Light Bar, Vortex Racks, Sandgrabbas, Nautia Pocket, GotyaCovered and Wheelskins Covers, Konis, Aux Lithium Battery & Solar Panel, Kaon Table, Custom Rear, Less NVH than Factory

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              • #82
                Thanks for the update. I will tackle the 3rd row storage area again. I covered them with stage1 before and I'd like to add stage2 on top of them to see if it makes any change.
                My20 Nx Gls Graphite | Tow Bar| Plates Sum,Trans&Rear| Munji Egr| Provent Catch Can| Automate Pro| Rock Slider| Paddle Shift| 265 70 r17 Goodyear Silenttrac| Koni 90&88 plus Kings| Tuningkit Race​​​​​

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                • #83
                  Hi DeeTee, I was hoping you could clarify something for me. When I originally read John G's thread, I had thought that the brackets replaced the need for the cable ties, but I may have misunderstood. Does one need both the cable ties and the brackets or just the brackets? It looks like the bracket design now doesn't need the welded side tab originally required for JG's brackets, so I'll knock some up according to your design. Thanks again for the thread!
                  NX GLX manual, T13, XD9000, Koni RAID, Ultragauge, ISI carrier, pioneer platform, Lithium auxillary

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                  • #84
                    Hey Ozzz, I reckon the biggest benefit in the storage area comes from a layer of Mass Loaded Vinyl (MLV) with Closed Cell Foam or some other soft material to decouple it from the steel panels. Given the floor is corrugated and already has some resonance treatment from the factory I reckon there’s little or no benefit from more stage 1 (Constrained Layer Damping) on the floor. Stage 1 is probably worthwhile on the wheel arches (and it can’t hurt). The big benefit from MLV (or any mass layer) is getting full coverage with no gaps. I made both of these mistakes (too much CLD, too many MLV gaps) in the storage area - hence the re-do.

                    Hey Insect_eater, definitely both the brackets and zip ties. They secure different areas of the dash and complement each other. If you have the dash disassembled for one it’s easy to do both at the same time.
                    NX GLX, Auto-mate Pro, Nudge bar, Stedi Light Bar, Vortex Racks, Sandgrabbas, Nautia Pocket, GotyaCovered and Wheelskins Covers, Konis, Aux Lithium Battery & Solar Panel, Kaon Table, Custom Rear, Less NVH than Factory

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                    • #85
                      Hi Deetee

                      Yes I agree. The stage1 had little improvement in storage area after installation. I will source some MLV this week.

                      Cheers
                      My20 Nx Gls Graphite | Tow Bar| Plates Sum,Trans&Rear| Munji Egr| Provent Catch Can| Automate Pro| Rock Slider| Paddle Shift| 265 70 r17 Goodyear Silenttrac| Koni 90&88 plus Kings| Tuningkit Race​​​​​

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                      • #86
                        I have pretty much stopped on the sound deadening and absorption - the material Mitsubishi uses is just so poor and it has too much flex in it. Also other things have started to rattle too like the middle bench seats and the front passenger seat. There is just cheap plastic everywhere, plastic upon plastic and clips which have lost their tensile strength and become lose from the harsh jarry suspension of the car.

                        Luckily I have my sound system I can turn up! lol. Theres no point going down this rabbit hole and throwing money for such little return.

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                        • #87
                          Hi Deetee, I tried to remove the stage1 from the 3rd row storage area and failed. The product is too sticky to be removed. They become a part of the car, so I have to move on and put stage 2 on top of them. The stage2 product I have used is Acoustic Liner Carpet Underlay - Stage2 which is not ideal but thats what I have bought. I believe Mass Loaded Vinyl could be better in terms of noise blocking. I used three large pieces to avoid gaps. After fitting stage2, it is a very tight fit to put the plastic basket back. So when you redo the barrier make sure you can put the basket back( I broke a corner of the basket due to excessive bending​​​​).


                          So, my soundproofing changes in Chronological order are 18inch tyre 265/60/18 to 17rim 265/70/17, four doors with stage1(no stage 2, I fear the noise from engine becomes more noticeable), 3rd row storage area with stage1, 2 inch lift with Koni and new spring, stage2 in dash area and stage1&2 in driver side floor and firewall, stage1 in cargo area and rear wheel arch, stage2 in area wheel arch, stage2 in 3rd row storage area.

                          The remaining projects are stage2 in cargo floor and bonnet.

                          Did the noise in the cabin improve bit by bit? Yes and no. Yes part is I hear less road noise on bitumen, no part is the engine noise and noise from crap road take over. So I changed my approach from eliminating noise to dampening noise. And I guess thats the same principle as you have described"if MMAL used, use more".

                          My experiences are: 17 inch tyre and suspension, stage2 in 3rd row storage, stage2 in rear wheel arch are more effective. If I can time travel and redo all of them, I will only make the above changes plus stage2 in cargo area and stage1 and 2 in bonnet to save time.

                          Today I did a 60km test drive, the experience was quite positive. The noise from hitting expansion joint become less noticeable. I will try to squeeze some time to finish the cargo area and bonnet then I guess my journey for soundproofing will be stopped for a while.

                          I will keep watching your projects and thanks for the inspirations.



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                          My20 Nx Gls Graphite | Tow Bar| Plates Sum,Trans&Rear| Munji Egr| Provent Catch Can| Automate Pro| Rock Slider| Paddle Shift| 265 70 r17 Goodyear Silenttrac| Koni 90&88 plus Kings| Tuningkit Race​​​​​

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                          • #88
                            Update to Project 3 - The Quiet Cargo Area...

                            Hey Niks. I'm with you on this. The interior panels and parts were not designed to be quiet and I feel like a dog chasing its tail sometimes. But I'm not giving up just yet. Plus my sound system will never be as good as yours

                            Hey Ozzz - Thanks for posting up your work. I reckon you're might be at the diminishing returns part of the curve when it comes to doing the bonnet and the cargo area. If you haven't bought the materials already then I'm happy to be a guinea pig.

                            I've been reading a lot about car sound proofing over at diymobileaudio and the resonix site (and other places) and learned a few things. I now realise I made a couple of mistakes when I did the cargo area. First mistake - I put too much Stage 1 Constrained Layer Damper (CLD) down (not a big deal - it can stay where it is and it's not hurting anything). Second mistake - and this is a big one - I left gaps in the Stage 2 Mass Loaded Vinyl (MLV). Mass layers should not have gaps or the sound waves will get through the gaps.

                            This weekend I re-did the MLV and taped the gaps closed, put a vertical piece on the rear right (I removed the blower - I have plans for that space...) and made a MLV mat for the rear. After all this palaver I noticed only a *marginal* improvement. The "thump" sound the rear suspension makes over a harsh edge is noticeably less - but it's still there - and the car is only 1-2db down on my test loop. This is not a huge difference. I also noticed that the sound of water spraying under the rear wheel arch is still present - so that's interesting.

                            Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

                            I also got fed up with the cheap plastic clips and replaced some of them with rivet nuts and 6mm threaded screws. The rear bottom panels are now tight tight tight. I think the screw heads don't look too bad - but I don't care what they look like if the panel doesn't rattle. I'm building up the courage to attach the door panels this way. Waddyareckon - genius or madness?

                            Cheers

                            V2 - Rear Wheel Arch.jpg V2 - Rear MLV Mat.jpg V2 - Rear Panel Fasteners.jpg
                            NX GLX, Auto-mate Pro, Nudge bar, Stedi Light Bar, Vortex Racks, Sandgrabbas, Nautia Pocket, GotyaCovered and Wheelskins Covers, Konis, Aux Lithium Battery & Solar Panel, Kaon Table, Custom Rear, Less NVH than Factory

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                            • #89
                              Hi Deetee, good work as along as it improves then worth it.

                              I came across an opion from someone, he said" Factory NVH result represents a balance. The whole idea is to let passengers feel comfortable within limited budget." I still remember the first day that I did the test drive on Paj. It was not a quiet car comparing to Prado( I tested as well), but the noise is somehow balanced to my ear. After I made changes one by one, my ear are feeling differently, not always in good way. So I ask myself, what if the noise become something more pleasant, less harsh? So I quickly identify the most annonying part of the noise, the harsh sound from expansion joint crossing, and this is my main task. Now I can have a conversation with my wife when she sits on back seat without raising my voice which is another gain.

                              And I have limited budget which is time( cooking for kids and other stuff since work from home), and thats why I follow your thread since day one. I try to pick up some economical projects.

                              I have bought some MLV from ebay for the bonnet ( I want to make a barrier as solid as I could, and MLV is the better choice). I agree the stage 1 is not a high profitable investment for Paj since the factory has done a good job. The floor and the firewall would benefit more with stage 2 products such as MLV.

                              Keep it up, because each 3 db reduction actually makes a huge difference(3 db rule), so not far away
                              My20 Nx Gls Graphite | Tow Bar| Plates Sum,Trans&Rear| Munji Egr| Provent Catch Can| Automate Pro| Rock Slider| Paddle Shift| 265 70 r17 Goodyear Silenttrac| Koni 90&88 plus Kings| Tuningkit Race​​​​​

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                              • #90
                                DeeTee - Mate thats a bloody good idea of rivet nuts or bolting the panels and getting rid of the clips! I had a similar thought but never really explored it properly to see how I could do it! You might have just put a light at the end of the tunnel for me on this! I don't care how it looks either with the nut heads, as long as the rattling just stooooops!

                                I figure I would need to remove all the panels again in the boot, drill straight through where the clips are from the outside of the trim panel and have a big enough bolt/nut to fit in the holes on the metal work where the clips clip into. I can then just glue some beige screw caps to hide the nuts if it looks really bad! The good thing is, as these panels have so much flex to them, they wont break being bolted in tight.

                                This would also work good for the rear tailgate lower panel, but not sure of the smaller upper trims. Also, I don't know how to attack the door cards either, it seems pretty complicated. I need to remove the CCF stage 2 on the backside of the door card and put Stage 1 on it, then put Stage 2 CCF back on it again. The Focal midbass drivers in the doors are giving the door cards a hard time staying quiet lol. In fact, the inner metal skin on the door has flex to it as well (this is where a lot of midbass energy gets lost), so I was thinking of even welding on some cross braces to really stiffen it up - but adds a hell of a lot of weight to the door. It really needs like 2 or 3 layers of Stage 1 on the whole skin.

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