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  • Lithium battery and winching.

    Just wondering if anyone has added a lithium battery as a start battery and also hooked it up to their winch. Also have they actually measured the amperage used during a winch haul.
    Dicko. FNQ

    2014 NW with all the usual stuff plus more.
    Some days your the dog...other days your the tree!!

    Telegraph X camper

  • #2
    Don't most winches have the load/wraps on drum vs current draw chart to work out your current draw? I assumed most of those charts would be fairly accurate, but I'm only assuming

    Have you come across much in the way of Lithium starting batteries? Doesn't seem to be much here in Aus, but found one 80ah in the US that would do 2000a current, I'm thinking that should suit your purposes!

    Comment


    • #3
      If lithium cells can accelerate a Tesla from 0-100km/h in 3 seconds then I'm sure they can run a winch - for a while.

      I expect the big issue with most batteries (a collection of cells) would be the construction of them - it's easier (cheaper) to construct a battery that can operate at 100A or 200A than it is one at 800A or 1000A. I guess that once the demand for lithium starting batteries begins to rise (as more "early adopters" buy them at current prices) then more manufacturers will begin to produce them - theoretically leading to reduced production costs (from higher volumes) and reduced sell prices (from increased competition).

      The Baintech slimline battery (without inbuilt BMS) recently posted in another thread is rated for 200A surge, and capable of being connected in parallel - but prices are currently far too high to consider creating a 500A / 1000A surge battery system with them.
      NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 ST Maxx, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

      Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

      Scorpro Explorer Box

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by disco stu View Post
        Don't most winches have the load/wraps on drum vs current draw chart to work out your current draw? I assumed most of those charts would be fairly accurate, but I'm only assuming

        Have you come across much in the way of Lithium starting batteries? Doesn't seem to be much here in Aus, but found one 80ah in the US that would do 2000a current, I'm thinking that should suit your purposes!

        I don't intend to add a winch mate as I consider them a non essential , heavy weight item. There have been a couple of blokes on here adding lithium start batteries but no idea if they run a winch. I like the idea of a lithium to remove at least 15kg of weight from the front of the car.
        Dicko. FNQ

        2014 NW with all the usual stuff plus more.
        Some days your the dog...other days your the tree!!

        Telegraph X camper

        Comment


        • #5
          There was a bloke on here recently discussing his fitment of under bonnet DCS batteries in parrallel.
          I'm noticing the name of the batteries being mentioned a bit, marketed hard, negativity should arise over time if a problem.

          By the time i'm willing & in a position to throw $3K + at batteries hopefully i'll know as i'm trying to monitor there progress.
          There is another lithium under bonnet marketed fair bit & i have noticed negativity surfacing about those.

          I would like 160 - 200amp hours, Lithium's under bonnet long term, on my list, if they seem to do the job that is?
          Weight & useable power is my reasoning.

          Bit of a demo here winching with DCS Lithiums, sounds like you need 200 amps of batteries.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12geFySee8Y

          https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/...treme-battery/

          Another fella same battery Winching
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmttBA_FZWs

          1 year review
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbStDC-7Q9E
          Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16 GLS with Sand Grabba floor mats, Ultragauge, Automate & Paddle gear shifters with Vlads traction control mod, Nautia switch panel, ARB compressor, Redarc Tow Pro, Anderson plug, Bushskinz front & rear alloy plates, Kaon light duty cargo barrier & rear door table

          Comment


          • #6
            The problem with Lithium and winches is the current draw. Even people running high wattage inverters have trouble with the BMS shutting down the battery due to high currents. I'm sure it can be done but imagine it would be very expensive trying to get a battery(ies) that can handle 400A++

            Edit: Looking at DCS as an example, their 100Ah batteries have a continuous rating of 200A so you would need 2 in parallel at a minimum for winching. Something like my winch (Runva 11XP) has a draw at max load of around 540A. Based on that the batteries couldn't cope at full load.
            Last edited by 2bad4u; 14-11-20, 02:58 PM.
            Warren
            2012 NW DiD Activ

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 2bad4u View Post
              The problem with Lithium and winches is the current draw. Even people running high wattage inverters have trouble with the BMS shutting down the battery due to high currents. I'm sure it can be done but imagine it would be very expensive trying to get a battery(ies) that can handle 400A++

              Edit: Looking at DCS as an example, their 100Ah batteries have a continuous rating of 200A so you would need 2 in parallel at a minimum for winching. Something like my winch (Runva 11XP) has a draw at max load of around 540A. Based on that the batteries couldn't cope at full load.
              Not yet high in my agenda, on the one day list which is good as i can watch it develop,for good or bad.


              But i hear you,also marketing, but this mob do many house batteries as well.
              Physical address,located about 30 minutes from me
              I'm only learning about there products from them & couple on you tube, one gentleman on the forum also recently fitted under bonnet.

              If you wanted to winch daily this model here would be the one to fit i reckon
              Going by Runva's site, couple of these in Parrallel you could melt the 11XP,if you can feed them the charge, you could melt the winch depending on how long it lasted.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Tz...ature=emb_logo
              https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/...treme-battery/

              Winch i'm heading for weight is 23.45kgs includes fairlead, cables & control box
              Winch alone 19.5kg's
              Going by the specs max amps 390 amps
              https://www.carbonoffroad.com.au/car...th-synthetic-r

              Winch mounting is only rated to 9500Lb's, i'm yet too see many/ any "rated" higher for Pajero.
              http://catalogue.tjmproducts.com/infos/070SB13N52V.pdf

              This system here 200 amp hour power, wire the vehicle properly I could switch on the ignition re-charge my AGM's in camper trailer & still start the Pajero
              I could do that twice before even coming close to having to run vehicle

              https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/...setup-lithium/

              In theory i could run a Redarc BCDC40 as example, just wire trigger wire to auxillary in lieu of ignition power
              I could winch the once in a blue moon.

              I like the theory, i like the weight 26kg's with useable 160 amp auxillary power at hand

              I would own my own power station with solar & camper trailer

              Few unknowns though, one being what would alternator think about it all this?
              How long do they last under bonnet?

              Addition: See Redarc manual out of interest with camper trailer/ caravan Redarc BCDC would run off this system, would be like syphoning fuel from on tank to the other in essence.

              The blue wire is basically a switch, wired to vehicle key to accesory turn your key to accessory the BCDC charger will work switch on if 11.9 volts is detected.
              Would need minimum 4B&S wire to keep on top of voltage drop

              Fair bit of power, minimal weight & should run winch no problems.

              https://www.redarc.com.au/Content/Im...n%20Manual.pdf
              Last edited by Jasonmc73; 14-11-20, 08:38 PM.
              Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16 GLS with Sand Grabba floor mats, Ultragauge, Automate & Paddle gear shifters with Vlads traction control mod, Nautia switch panel, ARB compressor, Redarc Tow Pro, Anderson plug, Bushskinz front & rear alloy plates, Kaon light duty cargo barrier & rear door table

              Comment


              • #8
                On smaller cells it's really easy to get them capable of 10c+ (eg 20a out of a 2ah cell). So theoretically a decent size lithium starting battery that is capable of running winches should be doable, but I think I agree that the bms is the harder part

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                • #9
                  I'm now seeing golf course equipment go from AGM to lithium.

                  Greens mowers, used electric due to the incursion of houses on courses.
                  Greens for obvious reasons are cut early morning & noise complaints = battery mowers to get the greens prepared fr the day.

                  First ones were diesel motor to drive about & electric to cut the greens.

                  Full electric with AGM batteries were next been round for a while

                  Now Lithium batteries full electric, just coming into Australian market.

                  Good to see this technology coming along & becoming more useable in every day use.

                  See where it goes but times do change i suppose.
                  Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16 GLS with Sand Grabba floor mats, Ultragauge, Automate & Paddle gear shifters with Vlads traction control mod, Nautia switch panel, ARB compressor, Redarc Tow Pro, Anderson plug, Bushskinz front & rear alloy plates, Kaon light duty cargo barrier & rear door table

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jasonmc73 View Post
                    I'm now seeing golf course equipment go from AGM to lithium.

                    Greens mowers, used electric due to the incursion of houses on courses.
                    Greens for obvious reasons are cut early morning & noise complaints = battery mowers to get the greens prepared fr the day.

                    First ones were diesel motor to drive about & electric to cut the greens.

                    Full electric with AGM batteries were next been round for a while

                    Now Lithium batteries full electric, just coming into Australian market.

                    Good to see this technology coming along & becoming more useable in every day use.

                    See where it goes but times do change i suppose.
                    I,ve got 2 120 amp lithiums in the camper and one 100 amp in the rear tub of pajero. Total of 34kilos for the 3. Replaced 120kg of AGM batteries. With the way campers and vans are going every kilogram helps in the weight department. Plenty of over weight rigs out there.
                    Dicko. FNQ

                    2014 NW with all the usual stuff plus more.
                    Some days your the dog...other days your the tree!!

                    Telegraph X camper

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dicko1 View Post

                      I've got 2 120 amp lithiums in the camper and one 100 amp in the rear tub of pajero. Total of 34kilos for the 3. Replaced 120kg of AGM batteries. With the way campers and vans are going every kilogram helps in the weight department. Plenty of over weight rigs out there.
                      I've only just "opened" my mind to this technology, its spreading me thinks & progressing.

                      This is what's on my mind, as below

                      Weight wise if I had 200 Amp hours of lithium under bonnet 26kg's + Carbon Winch total 23.5kg's

                      This is very similar weight as someone whom has pair of say Century N70 lead acids 25kg x 2 under bonnet & no winch.
                      Except the fact 2 x lithiums would give 160 amp auxillary availability.
                      I know winch is out front not over Strut, but still similar.

                      I will fit, Bushskinz alloy front plates = 8kg's, less factory one that comes off so maybe 6kg changeover?

                      It's not just the auxilary power but weight that has it in my mind to keep an eye on it's progression.

                      Impresses me anyhow

                      Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16 GLS with Sand Grabba floor mats, Ultragauge, Automate & Paddle gear shifters with Vlads traction control mod, Nautia switch panel, ARB compressor, Redarc Tow Pro, Anderson plug, Bushskinz front & rear alloy plates, Kaon light duty cargo barrier & rear door table

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Winching
                        It would have to be these, expensive, unless you had a real appetite for fitting 100 amp hour.
                        Physical size 100Amp hour is 328mm length
                        This link size 306mm
                        https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/...treme-battery/

                        No winch these will drop in with ease
                        Size 260mm
                        https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/...-75ah-lithium/
                        Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16 GLS with Sand Grabba floor mats, Ultragauge, Automate & Paddle gear shifters with Vlads traction control mod, Nautia switch panel, ARB compressor, Redarc Tow Pro, Anderson plug, Bushskinz front & rear alloy plates, Kaon light duty cargo barrier & rear door table

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think they were the only aus place selling them that I could find also.

                          Looking at buying individual cells, there are plenty of options for 2c continual discharge prismatic 60ah+ cells, but the best I can find is 4c discharge. Nothing larger than that. I'm starting to think that for the ratings on that deep cycle systems extreme battery they must be using a heap of cylindrical cells in parallel (that have much higher individual C rating), or they have small prismatic cells with better than average C ratingg that they have in like 4+ parallel 4 series.

                          Funny thing I did come across was one place selling starting battery, 4yrs "normal mounting" but 3 yrs under bonnet. Starting battery under bonnet is normal

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I believe DCS are cylindrical cell battery.
                            3 year warranty/ under bonnet

                            Just going on this blokes info
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKg8wxDUBV0
                            Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16 GLS with Sand Grabba floor mats, Ultragauge, Automate & Paddle gear shifters with Vlads traction control mod, Nautia switch panel, ARB compressor, Redarc Tow Pro, Anderson plug, Bushskinz front & rear alloy plates, Kaon light duty cargo barrier & rear door table

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              40min video!! I'm only 11min in so far. He has picture up there with the cylindrical cells you mention, looks like 6 in parallel so I think I'm on the right track for how they achieve the high discharge current. Will mean the overall size will be a bit larger for same Ah, but still better than lead acid. Good video, lots of good info in there from what I've seen so far

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