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  • #46
    Originally posted by mrbitchi View Post
    The Rhino track system I've used on both my Paj and my Cruiser are both bolted and riveted on. They use the original roof rack bolts and then you install a number of rivets as well. The rivets in both cases are Stainless Steel. I had the ones on the Paj for about 12 yrs and so far the ones on the Cruiser for about 4 yrs. No issues with either car.
    I think this is a good path though there has been some evidence of the centre mount cracking the roof. Rhino appear not to interested in fixing the manufacturing issue perhaps as Pajero is near its end of run. As early in the thread I wonder if one can just twig that mount in a vice to be happy its not stressing the roof unnecessarily.

    But there is still the issue of how limited you are off road with the load.

    Good to hear you have had no issues, that's what I'm aiming for.
    Last edited by jaffles; 2 weeks ago.

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    • #47
      Touched base with a major roof rack supplier today to see if I could buy more brass mounting screws. They had them in stock so that is good. While on the phone I told them what rack and channel mount I had, and asked rather than use the double sided tape and alloy pop rivets would they be interested in sika, nuts and bolts. He said no, and just reconfirmed what the instructions suggest.

      So think I am committed and have given up on any future warranty. Furthermore if Tracklander won't respond to an email or phone call after the sale was done, I think that's suggest something. I feel like a bit of a goose hoping they would be the shining rack amongst the selection.

      Also been pondering if the manufacturer of the rack suggests its good for 200kg, Then I don't think it will fall apart up to 200kg. It also seems all cars manufacturers have unanimously stated 100kg is their rated roof load. If that's not colluding or anti competition than its probably safety legislation attempting to reduce car roll overs. A good reason why most 4x4 have a lower centre of gravity in recent years. So I'm thinking the roof is good for more than 100. The rack can withstand more than 100, its just a matter of making the mounting channel secure and strong enough to deal with more than 100. And if tracklander feel double sided tape and alloy pop rivets is enough for 100, than I'm feeling happy with the other way suggested. Doesn't mean I'll try and get to 200, but if 130 comes about to get to camp then I don't think I'll be giving it much thought.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by jaffles View Post
        Touched base with a major roof rack supplier today to see if I could buy more brass mounting screws. They had them in stock so that is good. While on the phone I told them what rack and channel mount I had, and asked rather than use the double sided tape and alloy pop rivets would they be interested in sika, nuts and bolts. He said no, and just reconfirmed what the instructions suggest.

        So think I am committed and have given up on any future warranty. Furthermore if Tracklander won't respond to an email or phone call after the sale was done, I think that's suggest something. I feel like a bit of a goose hoping they would be the shining rack amongst the selection.

        Also been pondering if the manufacturer of the rack suggests its good for 200kg, Then I don't think it will fall apart up to 200kg. It also seems all cars manufacturers have unanimously stated 100kg is their rated roof load. If that's not colluding or anti competition than its probably safety legislation attempting to reduce car roll overs. A good reason why most 4x4 have a lower centre of gravity in recent years. So I'm thinking the roof is good for more than 100. The rack can withstand more than 100, its just a matter of making the mounting channel secure and strong enough to deal with more than 100. And if tracklander feel double sided tape and alloy pop rivets is enough for 100, than I'm feeling happy with the other way suggested. Doesn't mean I'll try and get to 200, but if 130 comes about to get to camp then I don't think I'll be giving it much thought.
        As you've alluded to, there are several reasons for imposing a limit on roof loading.

        Even if the roof can structurally sustain a lot more and whilst in a straight line everything is fine and dandy . . . . then a loose gravelly curve comes up unexpectedly and the trip goes pear shaped . . . Screenshot_2021-02-18-22-43-33.png very . . . very . . . rapidly.
        2012 PB Challenger LS Manual

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        • #49
          As with most things, if you have the time and access to the correct equipment, most things are possible.

          Before there was a commercially available backbone system for Pajeros, I made my own. It uses 6 brackets that are through bolted to the roof (with backing plates and 4 M10 high tensile bolts in each bracket - so 24 in total), the 3 brackets then are joined with shaped aluminium angle to evenly spread the load, and finally I then mounted a Rhino platform to the top.

          It’s carried a variety of loads/weights across all sorts of terrain (inc Simpson Desert) without roof damage. (I don’t want to incriminate myself so won’t quote how much weight).

          What your trying to achieve is definitely possible - but maybe not with commercially available options.

          For those that are interested, this is the page from my build;

          Originally posted by geopaj View Post
          Touring Roof Rack (Rhino Platform on custom DIY mounts)

          As the NT had a aluminium boat loader with custom reinforced mounts installed into the roof and I had a Rhino Platform & ARB awning off my NL, I decided to make a mount to attach the Rhino Platform to the boat loader's reinforced roof mounts (this had several advantages - 1. Maintaining the reinforced and plated roof mounts, and - 2. Meant I avoided having to drop the roof lining to remove the boat loader's mounts and install Rhino mounts) - 3. I could keep the rack mounted low so I can still access the majority of commercial car parks in Adelaide [usual clearance seems to be 2.05m] ).

          I started off with a 75mm X 75mm X 3mm full length of aluminium angle. I then cut two pieces to the length of the platform. The next step was to cut one side of the aluminium angle down to 45mm, and machine the other side to match the profile of the roof.


          With the above done for both sides it was just a matter of attaching the Rhino Platform to the horizontal side of the aluminium angle. As seen in the picture below, I also decided to add a wind deflector. The wind deflector also adds diagonal stability to my aluminium angle mounts (FYI I set the wind deflector angle to be the same as the windscreen). The eyelets visible in the picture are easily adjusted or removed.


          Unfortunately, when I installed the Rhino Platform and awning, I discovered that the awning was slightly too low and fouled the top of the doors by about 10-15mm. Bugger! I was keen to keep the top of the awning below the top of the platform (for clearance and protection), so machined and welded up these brackets (started with 40x40x2.5mm galv angle iron).


          Success! The finished project (I now just need to sort out a nice low bracket for the UHF antenna)


          The 'design inspiration' for the for my aluminium angle mounts came from the way ARB make their roof mounts for vehicles without roof gutters (as per this picture I found online, of a 200 Series I think). To my eyes at lest, my mounts and ARB's have a similar 'look' (except for the wind deflector, obviously).


          I am very happy with the outcome - the roofrack is completely silent and I have noticed NO difference in fuel consumption (even on extended highway speeds).

          Cost: I think it was about $70 for the 6.5mtr length of aluminium angle, and <$10 for a scrap off-cut it to make the wind deflector.
          Last edited by geopaj; 2 weeks ago.
          Silver NT VRX Di-D

          | ARB bullbar | snorkel | Bushskinz & Boo’s guards | UltraGauge MX | 2" lift | airbags | Cooper AT3 LT's | Superwinch X9 | 80ltr diesel tank in rear seat well | 22ltr water tank | aux trans cooler | MM Lockup Mate | GME UHF | locker/TC mod | SPV EGR | rear LED work light | rhino platform | ARB awning | rear drawers ... & plenty of scratches

          My Build Thread - HERE

          Previously - NL Pajero (now owned by Forum member 'Gemster')

          Comment


          • #50
            Yeh that's no good. Don't get me wrong, I think 100+ on a roof or even 60+ when outback touring with speeds over 85km/h on dirt road has potential to be playing with fire. Wash outs, dust and rocks from on coming traffic, bulldust, culverts, wildlife, randoms rocks, shrubs, or just a heap of huge corrugations on the crest of a rise, there's plenty to put you out of shape.

            But a run up the bitumen to Fraser or Moreton island, or some NP with good dirt road access with 130 on the roof is not that adventurous. Maybe I'm talking myself into to. But I look at people doing remote round the world adventured with a Rhino ridge back racks over loaded suggest a bit more than 100 is possible. Maybe its luck, maybe the correct mounting lets you get away with until a warranty. Some regular checking that things are still tight would not go a stray either.

            Looking at the Patrol.....well that's his problem. Na..joking, looking at the width of the track my guess 30 to 40 with 50km/h bring the max speed there. And it may sound arrogant, but if those jerrries are full they should have been more central. Looks like far to much over the rear wheels. Actually looks far to much for 1 to 2 people full stop.

            Obviously you were there, but I watch people out west, many are always in a hurry. Doing stuff like Brisbane to Alice rtn via the desert in 2 weeks. I have even met Melb to Cape York and back in 2 week type people. And because you can do 100+ on the Oodnadatta or the other blood lines people do. A lurking down side to the modern quiet comfortable car with all the safety features.

            My rule is see more of less. Means you have to go back more and it cost more. Alternatively plan the trip you want and the time required is what it is. Take that time and enjoy it. Don't cram what you want to see into a specific time slot, like 2 weeks. That tends to lead to overloaded cars going to fast.

            Bit idealistic the above I know, but we have been to the desert 3 times for 6 weeks each time. Have dealt with all the stuff that happens and had 100 on the roof with up to 170? picking up wood well before camp. Be it not in a Pajero, but I do really think speed and time restraints are the killers, with weight and conditions as the variable.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by geopaj View Post
              As with most things, if you have the time and access to the correct equipment, most things are possible.

              Before there was a commercially available backbone system for Pajeros, I made my own. It uses 6 brackets that are through bolted to the roof (with backing plates and 4 M10 high tensile bolts in each bracket - so 24 in total), the 3 brackets then are joined with shaped aluminium angle to evenly spread the load, and finally I then mounted a Rhino platform to the top.

              It’s carried a variety of loads/weights across all sorts of terrain (inc Simpson Desert) without roof damage. (I don’t want to incriminate myself so won’t quote how much weight).

              What your trying to achieve is definitely possible - but maybe not with commercially available options.
              Thanks geopaj, I had read you build, well done. I had forgotten though.

              I might just look into that. Bolting a mount to the roof then bolting the rack to the mount. Sizeable steel maybe 2mm to 3. I would need 4 however for the Toughbar with 2 being either side of the OE central mount. It looks like it could use the for and aft OE mounts but not the middle. I'm not sure what's in the roof as far as reinforced points until I pull the hood-lining

              The Rhino channel track I have can be bolted to the roof, but then uses brass discs with a thread tapped into them, to slide into and along a fairly thin alloy channel as the fastener point to the Toughbar. The lips of the channel are around 1mm thick and perhaps 4mm seating face for the disc, X2 for each side of the disc. So not much but it seems a popular method with rack makers these days.

              I have 4 legs on the Toughbar so 4 discs per side. I have pondered drilling new holes in the Toughbar and give them 2 discs mounts per leg giving a total of 8 per side.

              You don't have any pics of your mounts that bolt into the roofs gutter by chance?
              Last edited by jaffles; 1 week ago. Reason: corrected aluminium track sizeing

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by jaffles View Post

                Thanks geopaj, I had read you build, well done. I had forgotten though.

                I might just look into that. Bolting a mount to the roof then bolting the rack to the mount. Sizeable steel maybe 2mm to 3. I would need 4 however for the Toughbar with 2 being either side of the OE central mount. It looks like it could use the for and aft OE mounts but not the middle. I'm not sure what's in the roof as far as reinforced points until I pull the hood-lining

                The Rhino channel track I have can be bolted to the roof, but then uses brass discs with a thread tapped into them, to slide into and along a fairly thin alloy channel as the fastener point to the Toughbar. The lips of the channel are around 1.5mm thick and perhaps the same in seating face for the disc, X2 for each side of the disc. So not much but it seems a popular method with rack makers these days.

                I have 4 legs on the Toughbar so 4 discs per side. I have pondered drilling new holes in the Toughbar and give them 2 discs mounts per leg giving a total of 8 per side.

                You don't have any pics of your mounts that bolt into the roofs gutter by chance?
                Hi,

                I just went outside and took a couple of photos of the rear right bracket. They’re not the best photos in the world but hopefully they help. Please be kind and remember that 1). these were made 5+ years ago; and 2). It’s seen a lot of rough roads and bull dust - so they are no longer ‘pretty’.

                The silver roof brackets are steel, whereas the black angle is aluminium.





                Silver NT VRX Di-D

                | ARB bullbar | snorkel | Bushskinz & Boo’s guards | UltraGauge MX | 2" lift | airbags | Cooper AT3 LT's | Superwinch X9 | 80ltr diesel tank in rear seat well | 22ltr water tank | aux trans cooler | MM Lockup Mate | GME UHF | locker/TC mod | SPV EGR | rear LED work light | rhino platform | ARB awning | rear drawers ... & plenty of scratches

                My Build Thread - HERE

                Previously - NL Pajero (now owned by Forum member 'Gemster')

                Comment


                • #53
                  Thanks geopaj, appreciated.

                  I have wondered if the cars cannel is better left open. Yes it gets water and crap in there, but at least it can dry out. The rubber seal may look nice but I think it may hide the enemy.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by jaffles View Post
                    Thanks geopaj, appreciated.

                    I have wondered if the cars cannel is better left open. Yes it gets water and crap in there, but at least it can dry out. The rubber seal may look nice but I think it may hide the enemy.
                    Jaffles,

                    I'm not suggesting you should, but if you wanna see some weight on the roof of a Paj, albeit short wheel base, have a look at the loads this lad carries

                    We will hear from him on forum shortly i imagine, as his unloading in Turkey going by Social media.

                    https://www.pajeroforum.com.au/forum...ia-in-a-shorty
                    Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Thats at the spirt, more shit on a roof than a land rover.....

                      Needles to say I have just cut 4.7kg out of the Tracklander Solar mount. Let alone made the mount so it doesn't cantilever and snap the front off the rack off. I had hoped if you make something and promote it as tough as nails, you make assessors that should complement it. The mount is a well made bit of kit, just wrong in my opinion.

                      It appears the 4 legged Tough Bar is no longer than the 3, however the 2200mm flat rack that is sold with either leg kit hangs past the front legs by 330mm. Fair enough, but the solar panel mount has a base of 300mm. This may not be an issue but not many of us mount the solar panel in the middle or rear, or 300mm back from the nose of the rack. Its mounted towards the front and often used as a bit of a wind deflector. This is what Tracklander market it as. This is what I will be doing when the load is on.

                      To my mind if you fasten a 7.7Kg solar panel (140W), on a 6.7kg mount that sits on a 300mm base; then that base sits on 330mm of rack that overhangs the forward leg mounts, is just waiting to fail.

                      Perhaps its made to fit the 1800mm flat rack, but they were happy to take my money along with the 2200 rack. Maybe its somewhere in the small print?

                      Either way my old solar panel never left the roof, or stood up to greet the sun. This one will lay flat daily driving, and stand up maybe 5 inches so I can slip the tent in under neath it and move weight forward onto the front suspension to even the cars load for stability.

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