Snorkel and LPG.....

[Mad Mac]

Just wondering if anyone has successfully installed a snorkel onto their Pajero with LPG, and what their secret is. I haven’t been able to find much info from searching on the forum.

I have installed a Snorkel onto the paj, its running dual fuel as well, with the older non-injected type gas system.
I have had the snorkel for a while but i am getting very annoyed with some of the problems it causes.

The reason for troubles with the snorkel, is that the ram effect created by the snorkel is not compatible with the LPG system.

When the snorkel was first installed, it used to stall on deceleration, above 30km/h, because the air being forced in would cause the LPG to lean out, and stall. This was then easily fixed with a balance pipe, between the mixer and the airbox. It now does not stall on deceleration, but instead kind of surges when you plant the thong. The motor feels like it is missing, but apparently it is caused by the air that is flowing into the airbox is not consistent, and this causes the LPG mixer to rich and lean the mixture with the variation of pressure now introduced by the balance tube.

I have tried lots of things to try and fix the problem, like fitting a 90 degree connector onto the balance tube so it is pointing into the main airstream. I also tried drilling out the balance tube connector at the back of the mixer, but none of this has really helped.

Its ok to drive around town, but when your on the highway, the surging problem is very annoying, and it wont accelerate above 110km/h.

So to solve my problem, i really need to stop the ram effect, so would installing a pre cleaner snorkel top or something like that actually fit onto the TJM one, and stop the ram effect.

Or does someone else have any ideas they are willing to share

Cheers
Shane

[Old Paj]

Snorkle + LPG

Have you tried simply rotating the ram 180 degrees, so that it does not take forced air into it? It seems to me that this could make a difference, though I admit I am not sure if it would.

[cutting it]

I would ask the question.. do i really need the snorkel.... can't really help you though......
Heard of all these problems with the induction type LPG so i fitted the injection system... so far working well.. with no power / running issues... or the back firing issues either

[Mad Mac]

cheers for the replies,

As for turning the ram head around, its not really an option with the TJM design, it rotates down, and ends up pointing in the same direction, but also blocks the door from opening.


And do i really need a snorkel, i would say yes, i'm kinda addicted to 4x4ing and camping, so the vehicle tends to spend a lot of time offroad.

Keep the ideas coming

Shane.

[Jaydee]

Go the donaldson - should stop the chuffing down the intake.

Induction noise should go away with the donaldson. Plenty of bits at bunnings to make one fit.

I dunno much about those snorkel beanies..... bit of foam jammed down the snorkel may have the same effect.

[reddog]

So did you end up working it out Shane?

[Mad Mac]

So did you end up working it out Shane?

Does this mean you have the same problem?


Unfortunately, i have been unable to solve the problem, i have talked to a couple of 4x4 stores about the pre-cleaner, and they have said that it wouldn't reduce the raming effect enough.




Anyways, i have no idea what to do to fix it.

Shane

[Ranger J]

Try taking the head off the snorkel and see what it does @ 100km/h shane

[RealThumbz]

Without being an expert on air-flow, whilst leaving the head of the snorkel in place and facing fwd, doing something to open up the back of the head of the snorkel (... ie drilling some 10mm holes, or maybe better making one larger hole and neatly rigging up some way of adjusting the opening, like a butterfly valve or other.) might help?

[mrbitchi]

I'd be disconnecting the snorkel from the airbox then taking it for a drive to verify that the problem is indeed the snorkel..

[zacc]

i have had a gas conversion done on my nm paj 3.5 the single point like yours . ( now i have injected gas ) i run a k&n filter so the older system i used , use to surge under hard acceleration . you realy can not stop this as it is the stepper motor that richens and leans the gas . this stepper motor is situated between the converter and throtle body . i spoke to the manufacturer about this and this is what i was told to do . get the stepper motor as close to the mixer as posssible try that, if it persists lean the mixture by screwing the big screw in on the stepper motor. ( when adjusting be ever so carefull that you do not lean it out to much or you will end up in the poo). try it then , like i said you will never get rid of it but it will certanly improve . i took this advise and it did improvr quite dramaticaly.a qick test to see if this is the issue is to unplug the wires going to the gas stepper motor take it for a drive and see how it goes , no surging , this is your problem. hope this helps

[zacc]

hey mad mac did you sort out your problem? if so what did you do ? cheers

[kippakoop]

i have the answer

Just wondering if anyone has successfully installed a snorkel onto their Pajero with LPG, and what their secret is. I haven?t been able to find much info from searching on the forum.

I have installed a TJM Snorkel onto my NL 3.5L V6 Manual Pajero, its running dual fuel as well, with the older non-injected type gas system. I am not sure of the brand, but its the one that integrates with the Petrol Fuel Gauge.

I have had the snorkel for about 6months now, but i am getting very annoyed with some of the problems it causes.

The reason for troubles with the snorkel, is that the ram effect created by the snorkel is not compatible with the LPG system.

When the snorkel was first installed, it used to stall on deceleration, above 30km/h, because the air being forced in would cause the LPG to lean out, and stall. This was then easily fixed with a balance pipe, between the mixer and the airbox. It now does not stall on deceleration, but instead kind of surges when you plant the thong. The motor feels like it is missing, but apparently it is caused by the air that is flowing into the airbox is not consistent, and this causes the LPG mixer to rich and lean the mixture with the variation of pressure now introduced by the balance tube.

I have tried lots of things to try and fix the problem, like fitting a 90 degree connector onto the balance tube so it is pointing into the main airstream. I also tried drilling out the balance tube connector at the back of the mixer, but none of this has really helped.

Its ok to drive around town, but when your on the highway, the surging problem is very annoying, and it wont accelerate above 110km/h.

So to solve my problem, i really need to stop the ram effect, so would installing a pre cleaner snorkel top or something like that actually fit onto the TJM one, and stop the ram effect.

Or does someone else have any ideas they are willing to share

Cheers
Shane

i have just had my gas done on my nj paj 3.0, what you need to do is create a ram effect on opposite side of the diafram. You can buy the kit to do this. they are usally used for a vt commadore as they have an intake that causes the same problem.
i have a mate who is a fitter and i got to help him do my conversion, while he was doing the job i installed the intake ram.

Basically what you do is drill a hole underneath the airbox and place a small stainless 90 degree elbow in the bottom so that it catch's the air coming into the airbox.
You then fit a tube on the end and run it to the valve on the back of your condensor, this then puts a ram effect at the back of the diafram conteracting the ram effect at the front.

i can take some picks if it helps.
cheers matt

[Mad Mac]

i have just had my gas done on my nj paj 3.0, what you need to do is create a ram effect on opposite side of the diafram. You can buy the kit to do this. they are usally used for a vt commadore as they have an intake that causes the same problem.
i have a mate who is a fitter and i got to help him do my conversion, while he was doing the job i installed the intake ram.

Basically what you do is drill a hole underneath the airbox and place a small stainless 90 degree elbow in the bottom so that it catch's the air coming into the airbox.
You then fit a tube on the end and run it to the valve on the back of your condensor, this then puts a ram effect at the back of the diafram conteracting the ram effect at the front.

i can take some picks if it helps.
cheers matt

Sorry fellars I completely forgot about this thread.

Thankyou for the reply matt & Zacc. Zacc I do remember disconnecting the stepper motor as you suggested and it didn't help the surging.

Unfortunately what matt suggests did not work in my case. This suggestion is what my gas installer along with other major gas installers at the time suggested (tapping into the unfiltered side of the airbox and fitting a 90degree joint directed toward the incoming air). As mentioned above, it resulted in surging while under acceleration in my case.

It wasn't until about a year ago that my gas converter stopped working and I went back to my gas installer who put a new converter in and told me that the recommended position for the balance pipe is now considered to be on the filtered side of the airbox and not the unfiltered side as it was installed by them previously.

Since the new converter (which was the exact same model as previous) and the balance pipe being moved to the filtered side it runs just the same as if a snorkel was not connected. Acceleration is perfectly smooth.

Sorry for not concluding this post earlier.

a couple of pictures are included below

Shane

[91Geoff]

How do you keep your engine bay so clean :0