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  • 30 micron filter?

    Just wondering is a 30 micron filter good enough as a secondary filter?

  • #2
    Originally posted by scattered_feels View Post
    Just wondering is a 30 micron filter good enough as a secondary filter?

    In a word NO. The factory filter is 10 micron. Go the 3 micron Donaldson as a secondary.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jeffwatkins View Post
      In a word NO. The factory filter is 10 micron. Go the 3 micron Donaldson as a secondary.
      x2 for CRD.

      Jeff you beat me to this one!!!!!!!! Great answer

      Hill

      PS 30 micron is meaningless without quoting an efficiency rating ie 95% at 30 micron.
      Interestingly filters have an efficiency rating for single pass and multiple passes
      Last edited by Hill; 30-01-16, 10:45 PM.
      200 Series
      AOR Quantum 4

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      • #4
        I just had my fuel pump rebuilt (NP with the dreaded fuel pump failure) by a bosch certified rebuilder. I asked him about extra filters and he said if you really want another filter, use a 30 micron pre-filter and definitely do not use a finer filter as a post filter. He says it messes with the flow rate of the system overall and shortens the life of your pump.
        That was enough for me to cross the donaldson off my wish list. I don't expect anyone else to do the same, now that it's second hand info from some random guy on the internet, but I got it from a guy who knows diesel injector pumps inside out, for what it's worth.
        SOLD - 2004 Exceed Di-D, 2" Lovells-Lovells lift, Boo's sump/intercooler/transmission guards, 4 way breather, dual batteries, General Grabber AT2s, Tough Toys LED awning

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        • #5
          "I don't expect anyone else to do the same..."

          Well I did! Took advice from both Mitsi service guys and after reading some of the stuff on Berrima Diesel's site, among others. Very happy with my decision, but appreciate there are also good arguments for a post-filter.
          BY13/MY14 Pajero NW GLX Auto, Cooper ST Maxx, factory towbar, Drifta drawers, SmartBar, Airtec snorkel, Koni 90 front and Bilstein 6272 rear shocks with Lovell HD springs, Brown Davis i/c, sump and transmission bash plates, Piranha diff breathers, Fuel Manager pre-filter, LRA 81L auxiliary fuel tank, Piranha steel battery tray, Sherpa 9500 lb winch, HPD catch can, LockUp Mate, Kaon cargo barrier, Harrop front e-locker, DBA T3 rotors and Xtreme pads, Mark's 4WD reduction gears

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          • #6
            My argument still stands. MM filter is 10 micron. Ryco replacement is 3 micron. Does that mean the Ryco filter will inhibit the flow?


            From Berrima Diesel.

            Fuel filters are the all-in-one line of defence to stopping contaminated diesel fuel damaging the diesel fuel system components. It is understood that non-common-rail diesel fuel filters filter down to approximately five microns while late-model common-rail diesel fuel filters filter to less than half that, at times down to two microns. Does this fine filtering mean your diesel system is totally protected? Don’t bet on it.

            http://www.berrimadiesel.com/home/wh...-filters-stop/

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            • #7
              Originally posted by scattered_feels View Post
              Just wondering is a 30 micron filter good enough as a secondary filter?
              Lets go back to the original question to help clarify situation.

              1.We don't really know if application is petrol or diesel. CRD or non CRD.
              2 We do know that "scattered" want to fit a 30 micron filter with unstated efficiency rating as a secondary filter.
              3 We dont know specifications of primary filter

              Unless primary is very low spec the answer is still NO.

              Hill
              200 Series
              AOR Quantum 4

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hill View Post
                Lets go back to the original question to help clarify situation.

                1.We don't really know if application is petrol or diesel. CRD or non CRD.
                2 We do know that "scattered" want to fit a 30 micron filter with unstated efficiency rating as a secondary filter.
                3 We dont know specifications of primary filter

                Unless primary is very low spec the answer is still NO.

                Hill
                How about we take a further step back?

                Most people get confused between the terms "primary" and "secondary" filters and I think this is what we have a case of here with Scattered.

                The "primary" filter is the one first in the fuel line -I am neglecting to think of the fuel tank strainer as a filter here. The "secondary" filter is the one next downstream of the primary. You could fit a "tertiary" if you wanted...

                Anyway, most people in my experience think that because they are fitting a second filter to the vehicle it is a secondary filter, when in most instances they are actually fitting a new primary filter, converting the OEM filter to a secondary filter. Again, in my experience, this is what 99.9% of people actually wind up doing.

                As a primary filter a 30 micron is fine - it will act as a water trap and a means of catching enough dirt to slow down clogging of the secondary (OEM) filter.

                If you retain the OEM filter as the primary filter and fit a new secondary filter then 30 micron will do nothing as the 10 micron will catch everything anyway. To be effective in this instance the secondary would have to be smaller than 10 micron.

                Manufacturers usually recommend against installing tertiary filters as smaller filter gauges usually mean restricted fuel flows. And yes, I know you can get 3 micron filters that will have sufficient flow, but they are not all that common.
                2008 NS Exceed DiD
                Twin batteries, FuelManager 30 micron filter, Airtek snorkel, Rhino Pioneer tray, Foxwing awning, TJM bull bar, 9500lb winch, 2" lift + HD progressive rate springs + Polyair bags, 75 litre water tank + electric pump, custom fridge slide, custom drawers

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                • #9
                  I would think 114 LPH would be more than ample.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jeffwatkins View Post
                    I would think 114 LPH would be more than ample.
                    That is a brand new, unused flow rate. The important flow rate is at 50% efficiency to allow for blockage of the filter in use.
                    2008 NS Exceed DiD
                    Twin batteries, FuelManager 30 micron filter, Airtek snorkel, Rhino Pioneer tray, Foxwing awning, TJM bull bar, 9500lb winch, 2" lift + HD progressive rate springs + Polyair bags, 75 litre water tank + electric pump, custom fridge slide, custom drawers

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Katana Chatty View Post
                      That is a brand new, unused flow rate. The important flow rate is at 50% efficiency to allow for blockage of the filter in use.

                      Check out post 6.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The following is a reply to an email that i sent Diesel Care in december regarding whether or not to install a secondary filter.

                        "Hi Jesse

                        Im thinking your Pajero is Pre common rail. It was about 06 that they changed to CR. If it’s Pre CR we don’t have a specific kit for it, however there’s no reason why a Primary filter couldn’t be fitted. I wouldn’t suggest a Secondary for this model due to the type of fuel pump it has.



                        If yours happens to be a CR, I’d recommend a Secondary Kit, they cost $340



                        Regards

                        Andrew Bourne

                        Director



                        Diesel Care Australia P/L
                        and Steinbauer Tuning Technologies"

                        just thought id throw this into the mix.....
                        Np Glx. 2" lovells lift, 265/75r16 Nitto Terra Grappler, DP Chip, power window mod, light bar, rhino racks, awning, k&n filter, polyairs, smf heavy duty clutch, boos bash plates.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          jbnp

                          Thanks for posting Diesel Care's recommendation.

                          http://www.dieselcare.com.au/service...ation-systems/

                          Some interesting information included:

                          1. WHAT KIT DO WE RECOMMEND?

                          Both options (primary and Secondary) will provide much better protection than not having an additional filter. Each one has their advantages but at the end of the day, we recommend secondary.

                          The reason is that we believe that finer filtration ultimately provides better protection. It’s also reassuring to know that if you are unlucky enough to get a bad tank-full of fuel, and the filter warning light on the dash comes on, that if anything has penetrated your factory filter, it’s been caught in the final filter. The fact is; contaminants DO get through filters. As Diesel Injection Specialists we see evidence of this almost daily. The best way to prevent expensive repairs caused by fuel contamination is to filter it. Fuel cannot be too clean.


                          2. Most factory filters on modern Common Rail systems are rated at 10 micron.
                          This confirms my research into factory filters assuming 95% efficiency rating. eg Donaldson P550385 which is replacement for factory filter for CRD Pajero should be equal or better than factory specifications. Donaldson state that it is rated at 12um (micron) @97.5%. (10 micron at 95% efficiency is my estimate of factory filter


                          Some Additional information:

                          1. Parker Racor recommend CRD filtration at 3 microns and 95% efficiency. Assuming Diesel Care's 2 micron filter is at least 95% efficient this would exceed PR recommendation

                          2. Berrima Diesel take on filtration http://www.berrimadiesel.com/home/services/filtration/

                          Some background reading for new members:

                          1.Fuel Filter Micron Rating NT Diesel
                          http://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/...ad.php?t=34944

                          2. Donaldson 3 micron filter 99% efficiency filter
                          http://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/...ad.php?t=40256

                          Hill
                          Last edited by Hill; 16-02-16, 08:53 AM.
                          200 Series
                          AOR Quantum 4

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi all,

                            I wanted to restart this discussion to aid my knowledge in additional diesel filtration.

                            As per my signature I have PC Challenger which to my knowledge has a 10 micron OE filter.

                            I want to add an additional filter, however primary or secondary to the OE filter is the question.

                            As has been discussed in posts above, DieselCare and Berrima Diesel appear to have opposing thoughts.

                            DieselCare recommend a smaller micron filter secondary to OE filter. They recommend replacing the OE filter as per log book services and the secondary filter every second OE filter change.

                            DieselCare suggest if you choose a primary to OE filter you change it on each occasion change the OE filter.

                            Berrima suggest a larger 30 micron filter primary to the OE filter. Interesting they suggest most CRDs run 2 micron OE filters (is it only Mitsubishis which run larger 10 micron OE filters)?

                            Berrima then suggest changing the primary filter every 30-40 thousand kms, basically every second OE change, while maintaining the OE filter log book intervals.

                            While I couldn't find specific recommendations from Donaldson, unless I'm blind I could only find 3 micron filters under their "Added Protection" section, so I'd take that as they think secondary to OE is the go.

                            So I am interested in what people out their actually do. Do more go primary or secondary and why did you make that decision?

                            During my research the only possible negative comment I found on secondary to OE is possible fuel flow issues due to such a fine filter.

                            As an aside are the Donaldson filters significantly batter than the Fuel Manager filter or v.v? I do like the kit that DieselCare put together and the fitting instructions they provide.

                            Thanks again.
                            PC Challenger MY2104. MT. Silver. The Ultimate Suspension (Lovells coils/spring, heavy duty front, medium duty rear with Aussie Ryder struts/shocks),TJM bullbar, TJM 9,500lb winch, safari snorkel, genuine towbar.

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                            • #15
                              I fitted the Diesel Care 2micron secondary filter at 23k, then changed the factory filter at 30k service & then both at 60k service. As you can see from the photos the factory Primary is quite clean and the finer secondary is 75% contaminated. If you were solely relying on the factory filter, there is an awful lot of junk that would have travelled through the pump & injectors. Cheap piece of mind considering the refurbishment costs of CRD parts.
                              Attached Files
                              2014 Black VRX NW Pajero - ARB Winch Bar, Dual Battery, Hayman Reese H/Duty Tow kit inc Electric Brake module, Engel 40L Fridge, Sunroof, Tint, Boo's Bash Plates, IPF Spotlights, Kings HD Springs & Bilstein shocks 2" Lift, 58L LRA Aux Fuel Tank, AOB Quad Breather kit, Fuel Manager 2u secondary fuel filter, 120amp Anderson outlet, Roo Systems RTT, GME TX3520W 80ch UHF,Stedi Fog/DRL, Redarc Pyro & Battery gauges, Western Filters Catch Can, 150W Solar Blanket, still in progress

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