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  • Diesel Enhancing LPG technology

    Hi guys,

    My name is Robert. Just joined after a few weeks of looking in. Some questions regarding LPG injection come up from time to time and I thought now would be a good time to say "HI" and to give my advice or help if needed.

    If you have any questions regarding LPG injection for Deisel engines you can ask away.

    Either post, PM or email me and I will be happy to help.

    Cheers

    Robert

    (Mods, please let me know if this is in the correct section etc - thanks)






















    Accurate dyno charts of the Pajeros are not possible at this stage because the almighty traction control pulls power back. This is great for road or off road however not for dyno runs

    Last edited by Fumig8me; 07-10-07, 09:02 AM.
    99 Pathfinder
    07 NS 5 door turbo diesel Pajero
    Rob
    0412 30 40 30
    www.Eco-Gas.com.au
    DIESEL / LPG ENHANCEMENT FOR TURBO & NON TURBO VEHICLES

  • #2
    Thanks Mods for allowing this post to remain.

    Another reason why I thought to post was that there is a lot of misconceptions out there about LPG injection into diesel and I wanted to clear the air ... so to say. At a recent 4WD night I was invited to in Sydney (last Friday night), one guy was told by the opposition that you need a turbo fitted to the car BEFORE you fit LPG injection.

    This is true if you fit a system that injects before the turbo charger . With the D-Gas System however the LPG is injected AFTER the turbo, at the manifold. The same system is used for non turbo charged diesels as well. ie no turbo charger is needed on our system.

    The D-Gas System is a far safer, more advanced system for a number of reasons. Another one is the angle of the vehicle is never a problem as we pull lidiud out of the LPG cylinder ... not vapour
    99 Pathfinder
    07 NS 5 door turbo diesel Pajero
    Rob
    0412 30 40 30
    www.Eco-Gas.com.au
    DIESEL / LPG ENHANCEMENT FOR TURBO & NON TURBO VEHICLES

    Comment


    • #3
      D-gas

      Hi Robert

      I don't know a lot about the D-Gas system but am looking at installing the system soon. However, a competitor has told me that if gas is injected after the turbo like D-Gas is, then it is possible to get swirling/streaming effect of air/LPG mixture and this can lead to combustion chambers getting un-equal amounts of gas. Is this true or how does D-Gas overcome this?

      Also with an average load and without a van behind how far will a tank of diesel and gas take me because the second part of my exercise is to increase the range of the Paj.

      Regards

      Peter
      Last edited by GLSPete; 28-07-08, 06:02 PM. Reason: words

      Comment


      • #4
        Its their way of trying to debunk our system, thats all.

        They have nothing else so they try that.

        Just by way of explaining this, petrol LPG systems have been injecting LPG so close to the inlet valves its not funny ... and does anyone argue that those systems work and work well? No, not one!!!

        Make you wonder hey!


        RE RANGE INCREASE: I have a NS Paj (DiD) and without LPG it gets 675kms. With LPG I have passed 800kms. This is with the standard 88 litre tank that I took both times to warning light.

        Depending on how you drive, you will get around 15 - 20% better milage.

        Hope this helps

        Cheers

        RR
        99 Pathfinder
        07 NS 5 door turbo diesel Pajero
        Rob
        0412 30 40 30
        www.Eco-Gas.com.au
        DIESEL / LPG ENHANCEMENT FOR TURBO & NON TURBO VEHICLES

        Comment


        • #5
          Rob

          Thanks, info is good I am going to arrange install via Keenan Gas in Wangara here.

          Out of curiosity how do you sell your product and how much is it and do you have an agent in WA:

          Regards

          Peter

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Pete,

            I would recommend going to Perth Auto Gas and speaking to Paul.


            08 9370 3250 Unit 3/86 Beechboro Rd BAYSWATER

            Good job, great service

            Thats my tip.

            Hope this helps

            RR


            Originally posted by GLSPete View Post
            Rob

            Thanks, info is good I am going to arrange install via Keenan Gas in Wangara here.

            Out of curiosity how do you sell your product and how much is it and do you have an agent in WA:

            Regards

            Peter

            99 Pathfinder
            07 NS 5 door turbo diesel Pajero
            Rob
            0412 30 40 30
            www.Eco-Gas.com.au
            DIESEL / LPG ENHANCEMENT FOR TURBO & NON TURBO VEHICLES

            Comment


            • #7
              Go the gas or what ever adjunct we can find to stretch our (bloody) expensive diesel dollor a bit further.

              From a scientists position it still takes a certian amount of energy to move an object a distance at a defined speed.

              IF gas is cheaper per unit of energy (which it is at the moment but the Govt is hellbent on increasing the taxes over the next few years - give em a rebate now and suck the life out of them real soon!) and it can be safely injected into a diesel - short term this is great (cheap gas to partially replace expensive diesel) - longer term, ie 2011(?) - gas will get the same excise policy so you can forget ANY cost savings.

              I stand to be beaten down but any attempt to increase diesel efficiency with natural gas (LPG) injection will most likely lead to tears - unless you can justify the capital expense, and short term cost savings (3 years at the most???) until the Fed Govt brings in it new LPG taxes??

              I reckon the idea is great but I have also seen a significant increase in fuel consumption (gas l/100km vs petrol) turning our EL falcon to gas - seems that in the commercial world alchemy (turning crap into gold) is alive and well...................

              THERE ARE NO SILVER BULETS - LPG enhancement - and the impressive performace curves shown - the more energy in - the more energy out. Great if you can afford the energy in!!

              A previous post asked the much more important question in this day and age - how much further can I travell if I do the conversion (fuel efficiency) - again this is a nonsense question - if you load the Paj up with more energy - ie a diesel tank AND a gas tank then you must travel further ( no brainer - doah). If you believe in alchemy - or the sales pitch, pay the $4,000 and provide the feedback to the forum (cant believe the Fed govt is sooo gullible!!)
              Ok so there's a black note - I'm looking forward to the robust debate!
              Lambie
              NJ 1996 ITD GLX (poverty pack) with a couple of extras, ARB bar, dual batteries plus redarc, Glind shower, some roo spotties, running 235 85 R16 AT's for the road and MT's for the tracks, tweeked torsion bars, Free wheeling front hubs, Poly airs and prodegy electric brakes for the camper, GME radio thingy, Long range tank, cargo barrier, have I really spent all this on my bus??

              Comment


              • #8
                Have you personally tried it Lambie?

                Very smart people running million dollar business' are moving forward with this "technology". I am sure you are not saying they are wrong ... right?
                99 Pathfinder
                07 NS 5 door turbo diesel Pajero
                Rob
                0412 30 40 30
                www.Eco-Gas.com.au
                DIESEL / LPG ENHANCEMENT FOR TURBO & NON TURBO VEHICLES

                Comment


                • #9
                  Lambie

                  I have read your past posts and respect your scientists? status at this site. The DiD already has enough power & pull for my situations. My foray into the Diesel Gas debate was to about extending the range for my Paj as my last 2.8 NK had a 170 ltr tank and I really miss the range it had.

                  I am a weekend angler and have a cliff spot west of Steep Point (Shark Bay) that our gang regularly fishes on weekend raids. Normally we leave Perth after 5 pm so that we can fish the spot by 6 am the next day. To do this we have to drive to Geraldton fill and then part fill at the Overlander Roadhouse before heading bush. Nowadays the Overlander station is no longer 24 hr and I need 20 ltrs of fuel to add 180 kms to survive the return journey.

                  I hate carrying jerrys cans so the thought is ... do I pay $1700 for a 60 ltr long range tank or do I pay $795 end cost ($3K rebate in WA for gas fitting) for a 27 ltr gas tank for the same. I am choosing the cheaper option.

                  I am going into this exercise knowing through friends that diesel-gas doesn't enhance fuel economy but it can reduce fuel cost. In my case about $24? a fill (20 ltrs of gas costs $12 as opposed to diesel at $36) and should get this with a 20% gas mix. Also most of my friends rave about the power increase & better drive, and lower noise with Gas converted diesels.

                  You maybe right about the longterm economics if the new Fed gas excises come in but I am living for now, and will be happy with some small gains in power and immediate fuel $ savings, and longer range the car will have.

                  Cheers ... Pete

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I see MM advise against lpg in the NS Diesel - anyone know why?

                    http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/...PATIBILITY.pdf
                    NS oil burner shorty

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi

                      I dont have any interest in gas, except for barbecueing, however I am mildly curious though, when you run out of LPG does the car stop or does it continue to run so long as you have diesel?

                      Cheers Glenn
                      NP Exceed 2005 3.2 diesel automatic , 100% stock standard except for the headlight globes

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        it just keeps running as if you never had the gas installed
                        99 Pathfinder
                        07 NS 5 door turbo diesel Pajero
                        Rob
                        0412 30 40 30
                        www.Eco-Gas.com.au
                        DIESEL / LPG ENHANCEMENT FOR TURBO & NON TURBO VEHICLES

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          They state that for people that think you can switch to LPG (like in a petrol)

                          LPG on diesel is not vehicle type or engine specific. Valve seat are not damaged and nor do fuel injectors burn out because the sharp edges of the crystal that is formed after LPG burns is not there by itself. The rounded edges of the same crystals that form with the burning of diesel (and petrol) (which are the lubricating qualities of those fuels) is still present.

                          ie you still have the lubricating properties of the diesel which protects the 2 engine parts stated above.

                          We have done many NP's and NS pajs.

                          The Automatic NS Paj (only) incidently has a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) and Mitsubishi are come out with a few ecu updates which allow the LPG not to set off the sensors in the DPF which in turn makes the DPF light flash and in the past trip off the CEL and limp home mode.

                          The previous before last had the DPF flash only in city driving. When the DPF would start to flash, you needed to switch off the gas and wait till the light stopped flashing. Then you could turn the gas on again. In country driving all was good and the light never lit.

                          The lastest firmware allows LPG to be run ALL THE TIME. The DPF flashes but thats all it does. I have been driving around with the flashing light for 3 months now.

                          The next fireware update should have it all go away

                          The crazy 2-3 second turbo LAG of the standard auotmatic NS pajero has now been cut in half as well.

                          The NP pajs just go great and do not have any of these associated issue. (they have no DPF!)

                          Just by the by ... I used to get 675km / tank ... now I get 800km/tank and with much more response and lots more power. The extra 125 kms with heaps more power costs me $17.

                          Is it worth the LPG mod? You bet. I am now very happy with an otherwise not so well performing 3.2 litre vehicle.

                          Hope this helps

                          Cheers

                          RR


                          Originally posted by Eastie View Post
                          I see MM advise against lpg in the NS Diesel - anyone know why?

                          http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/...PATIBILITY.pdf
                          99 Pathfinder
                          07 NS 5 door turbo diesel Pajero
                          Rob
                          0412 30 40 30
                          www.Eco-Gas.com.au
                          DIESEL / LPG ENHANCEMENT FOR TURBO & NON TURBO VEHICLES

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Rob

                            I am going with Perth Auto Gas based on your advice and as they offer the bigger gas tank which is a standard Pajero 60 ltr Kit. Do you have a photo of the install from ground up, I am told it hangs down lower than the old chair cavity but doesn't affect ground clearance.

                            Thanks

                            Pete

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sorry I dont as we normally fit the 26 usable litre tank.

                              I guess you can post up some pics when the job is finished (and email me the hi res images if you can)

                              I will then add to the website with your approval.

                              Cheers

                              RR


                              Originally posted by GLSPete View Post
                              Rob

                              I am going with Perth Auto Gas based on your advice and as they offer the bigger gas tank which is a standard Pajero 60 ltr Kit. Do you have a photo of the install from ground up, I am told it hangs down lower than the old chair cavity but doesn't affect ground clearance.

                              Thanks

                              Pete
                              99 Pathfinder
                              07 NS 5 door turbo diesel Pajero
                              Rob
                              0412 30 40 30
                              www.Eco-Gas.com.au
                              DIESEL / LPG ENHANCEMENT FOR TURBO & NON TURBO VEHICLES

                              Comment

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