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  • Winching set ups, breaking strains etc

    Hi all. Done a search through the forum and can't seem to find this info

    I'm wondering on the logic of choosing the SWL (or WLL or whatever the equivalent is on this gear) or breaking strength of the gear used when winching.

    Picture a situation when winching using an extension strap with shackle to the winch line, plus shackle to tree protector. You have a fair few things along the line that could potentially break.

    Is the logic to follow that you want things getting stronger as you go along, so if anything breaks it will be your winch line? Or the other way around so you definitely won't break the winch line?

    My thinking is that a flying winch line on its own is the safest option without shackles and other things flinging around with it, but keen to hear from more experienced.

    On the same topic is making the actual choice in what to get. It seems to winch line/rope/cable is rated in breaking strength (if you can even get that sort of info) but shackles are rated in SWL. Straps etc seem to have SWL or equivalent. My understanding is that SWL/WLL is 1/5 of the minimum breaking strain of the piece of equipment. So if we are going stronger as we move down the line, do we just increase strength based on minimum breaking strain or should be basing our choice on SWL?

    Would appreciate advice on the type of logic I should follow when choosing this equipment, and I'm sure it would be really helpful to others who are new to the 4wd recovery scene.

    Thanks in advance, Stu

  • #2
    Originally posted by disco stu View Post
    Hi all. D
    Thanks in advance, Stu
    This young chap goes alright i reckon


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW304fXuG1M
    Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16

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    • #3
      Thanks Jason. Actually seen that vid previously, but watched it all again to be sure.

      Was actually hoping that the info he gave could be confirmed.

      But to take from everything he said, I'm going to be alright working off the minimum breaking stain of the gear I buy, rather than the WLL/SWL

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      • #4
        I'm no rigger / dogger (or whatever the term is for somebody who actually knows) but I would've thought you'd want the winch to stall before anything approaches its SWL / WLL.

        In reality, for a 9500lb winch, I am more than happy with 4.7T shackles - the winch shouldn't be able to pull that hard.

        Of course, adding a snatch block for a double-line pull can double the force on the snatch block anchor. A 4.7T shackle should still be adequate, but if you approach stalling of the winch you would be beyond the shackle's WLL - but within its safety margin. I have a snatch block, but still only 4.7T shackles to use with it.
        NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 Toyo MT, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

        Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

        Scorpro Explorer Box

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        • #5
          I don't think there are any standards for recovery gear (happy to be corrected), and as such any rating is generally tested breaking strain. Pure recovery items like snatch straps are rating like this.

          SWL (Safe Working Load) or WLL (Working Load Limit) is rated as per an Australian Standard, and is generally referred to as 1/6 of breaking strain. If you are happy to buy the Standard you can find out for yourself (I'll refrain from getting on my soap box about having to pay for a document to maintain safety!)

          Items that can be used for lifting or recovery are generally rated with SWL or WLL because they could be used for lifting, and hence have to abide by the Australian Standard.

          Therefore a 4.7t SWL translates to about 28t breaking strain.

          A very laymans explanation.
          PCOV Member 1107.
          Daily driver NX GLX
          Semi retired NL GLS 3.5 (no airbags) in almost prestine condition to replace NJ.
          Virtually fully retired NJ 2.8TD
          Previously - NB LWB, NA SWB.

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          • #6
            Why didn't someone tell me that "Dyneema" Spectra rope was big Braid fishing line

            Now i have much more confidence in it, man you can anchor a tinny with 80Lb braid , she certainly doesn't stretch, can feel every rock at 100 metre depth.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-...ethylene#Fiber
            Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16

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            • #7
              I just assumed everyone knew that Jason!!

              Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm so conditioned to work in SWL that it was confusing me having gear that was only rated on breaking strength. Easy enough to convert to SWL like pharb mentioned, but the sales pitches of gear is all about breaking strength.

              I think I'm pretty comfortable with it all now. But the winch line is still a fairly weak point I think, considering the state that you see many of them in and the abuse they cop on the front constantly

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              • #8
                Originally posted by disco stu View Post
                I just assumed everyone knew that Jason!!
                Like a light bulb moment for me


                Absolutely had no idea! I like Fins braid, great stuff!

                When i need one of these winch block, it will be one like this or similar, not really interested in cheap circlip held together thing that looks like junk, as per Kings super centre. I understand no weight on circlip etc & would do the job, personally still junk & wrong item to own junk for me personally.

                https://www.sherpa4x4.com.au/product...4-snatch-block

                I presume the likes of this strap, the "breaking strain" is pulling on each end to break it
                When you use it as you would, i understand depends on angles but it's going to be more.

                https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/...%3D%3D&start=1

                Bow shackles are rated WLL these days in lieu of SWL, they ain't going to break.

                So its just the peace of braid on winch! & that stuff in good condition is impressive
                Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jasonmc73 View Post
                  When i need one of these winch block, it will be one like this or similar

                  https://www.sherpa4x4.com.au/product...4-snatch-block
                  Check the specs of whichever rope you end up with. When I was researching, all ropes that published specs specified a snatch block diameter at least 10 times the nominal rope diameter. I found few snatch blocks published a diameter, and most of those that did were too small for my rope.
                  NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 Toyo MT, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

                  Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

                  Scorpro Explorer Box

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nj swb View Post

                    Check the specs of whichever rope you end up with. When I was researching, all ropes that published specs specified a snatch block diameter at least 10 times the nominal rope diameter. I found few snatch blocks published a diameter, and most of those that did were too small for my rope.
                    Even this one is not confident with ropes if you read the speel.
                    Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by disco stu View Post

                      But the winch line is still a fairly weak point I think, considering the state that you see many of them in and the abuse they cop on the front constantly
                      I agree how many ropes do you see exposed outside the bar, lots and where the rope joins the hook etc, stuff don't like UV for one problem

                      Factor 55 make a fine looking hook & cover to stop this, rather protected, but the price geez, like half the price of the winch!
                      Which seems crazy to me

                      Quite a few nipples on Amazon to take a d-shackle though.
                      Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nj swb View Post

                        Check the specs of whichever rope you end up with. When I was researching, all ropes that published specs specified a snatch block diameter at least 10 times the nominal rope diameter. I found few snatch blocks published a diameter, and most of those that did were too small for my rope.
                        That's a really interesting point. I know with analysis of knots in braid fishing line that the failure point was always the tight bend in the line, causing the inside strands to not be taking any load. I hadn't considered that with snatch blocks, so definitely something I'll keep in mind.

                        But at the same time, what about the loop in the end of the winch line for joining to hook? That's always a fairly tight bend

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by disco stu View Post

                          That's a really interesting point. I know with analysis of knots in braid fishing line that the failure point was always the tight bend in the line, causing the inside strands to not be taking any load. I hadn't considered that with snatch blocks, so definitely something I'll keep in mind.

                          But at the same time, what about the loop in the end of the winch line for joining to hook? That's always a fairly tight bend
                          I was more worried about rope jamming beside pulley & the plate
                          Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16

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