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  • Suspension and other mods for near new Final Edition

    Hi all

    I bought a new Final Edition GLX last year and took delivery in December. It's my 6th Paj so I am obviously somewhat biased. My last was an NT and I passed it on to my son with a bit over 300K on it and at that stage it had hardly had a spanner on it, despite doing many fairly hard miles of outback and off road driving, with and without a caravan.

    I've been reading the forum and a member for quite a while but this is probably my first post. I'm part way through my upgrade path but it's time to get a bit of advice on some details, hence my post. I've attached a photo of Paj with van attached.

    I've read many of the threads on suspension and tyres, and have my experience from previous Paj's, particularly the last, but I am still uncertain on the best way forward with the suspension. Its a tricky area as we ask so much of the suspension in coping with many different possible load/terrain/comfort scenarios. As I'm sure it's been stated many times, it's all a compromise.

    Vehicle accessories and usage requirements include:
    • 40-50mm lift (to be done)
    • Smartbar bull bar and Bushranger winch with dyneema cable (fitted)
    • Bushskinz bash plates, steel 4mm full set (to be fitted)
    • UHF radio (fitted)
    • phone booster (fitted)
    • driving lights (fitted)
    • Usage:
      • towing; mix of bitumen, gravel and tracks. Some serious outback travelling.
      • car only; some beach use, mud and trails as well
      • towing an off road caravan, (14ft Trakmaster) max gross 2000kg and ball weight approx 170kg
    • McHitch coupling and HR load equalisation hitch used (McHitch coupling is great with Pajero rear door.)
    • 3rd seats removed but replaced with some luggage - recovery gear, compressor etc
    • when loaded in rear (fridge, lithium battery pack, tools, BBQ, some firewood, sundry other junk) approx up to 100-150kg, heavier items carried forward close to folded rear seats, so between f/r axles, slightly aft
    • driver and one passenger only
    • Original tyres to be replaced, probably by Maxxis Razr 265/70/17LTs. Previous vehicle used 3 sets of Dueler 697s without any problems over some pretty gnarly ground but I was not impressed by their noise as they got older. I note OJ's comments on his SA group's experience with 697s, perhaps I was lucky. Also maybe mine weren't rotated enough (every 10K) so got noisier than they should have.

    My previous Paj had an ARB lift and the front end was a bit too firm. It felt like the dash was going to fall out on the Mereenie Loop, although I admit that I did run the tyres harder back then. Have learnt my lesson. The details of the ARB lift were;
    Coils F2924 R 2917
    Shocks F 90007 R 60019
    I understand that the ARB front coils were 14.11kg/m and rear 12.5-16. I'm told factory coils are 10.36 front and 11.6 rear.

    The rear end worked well as the 12.5-16 coils with airbags gave a good range of capability, supple enough at low load but firm enough at higher loads with bags inflated, and then WDH transferred load from rear to front axle. You can really see the difference the WDH makes in getting a level stance. Note attached photo with van attached to new vehicle with standard suspension the car is relatively level with WDH fitted.

    My current thinking is Kings coils and Bilstein shocks for 40mm lift.
    • Rear; Based on my previous experience the Kings KCRR-35 (11.7-17.86kg/mm) with air bags should be ok. Although I note most recommend a stiffer coil, 35HD?
    • Front; this is where I am uncertain what front coils to use. Something a bit softer than the ARBs but able to carry the load and maintain the lift.
    • If the lift settles a bit when towing that doesn't concern me too much as long as the WDH keeps it level, but when offroad not towing the lift and associated clearance is more important.
    • I'm probably sourcing my suspension from Kieron at Bushskinz and I've asked for his opinion as well as Kings. I'm tending to KCFR-34HD front as they are a bit softer than the ARB set but still stiff enough to carry the load, and either KCRR-35, or KCRR-35HD rear, with Bilstein shocks.
    What coil/shock combinations would forum members recommend?

    Regards
    John



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    Last edited by old Jack; 12-01-22, 12:09 PM. Reason: OJ. Thread title corrected.

  • #2
    Hi John,

    Welcome, I corrected the thead title, hope you do not mind.

    Hopefully you have read the hundreds of posts regarding suspension upgrades on Gen3/4 Pajero's, and you have learnt it is easy to get wrong and difficult to get perfect so a good compromise is the best outcome possible. Without knowing your axle weights it is difficult to advise of coil options and implications of using particular coils.

    King coils are my go to coil as they have the best range, great quality and warranty and are reasonably priced.

    For general recreational 4wding best struts and shockers in my opinion are OzTec, these dampeners ride softer than Bilstein/Old Man Emu and KYB and have stronger rebound control, so they are more suited for rough roads. OzTec also have a much longer warranty. Koni have a proven track record in remote touring applications but come at a greater cost. Dobinson MT/IMS have similar valving characteristics to OzTec but are more expensive and are heavier duty, they do have a shorter warranty and have only been on the market for a few years.

    Suspension comfort and handling are very much a personal choice and it is impossible to get a suspension that rides like a limo, carries variable load of up to 700kg, handles like a sports car, never wears out or fails, and is a reasonable price.

    Tyre choice and tyre pressures also have an effect on how the suspension behaves, change tres from light duty HT to heavy duty MT's and so have not only increased your unsprung weight considerably, but you have also fitted a tyre that is stiffer and will transmit more energy into the suspension. Even 5 psi diffrence in tyre pressures can effect how the suspension rides and handles.

    OJ.
    2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
    MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi OJ

      Thanks for the correction and quick response. Saw the typo after I had posted.

      Understand the compromise issue. Its a matter of where you want sit on the spectrum and how you get there. It's similar with sailboats where they say it's a compromise between 3 things, speed, comfort and cost.

      I'm planning to go to a weighbridge tomorrow to get weights and associated EBH measurements. I will get measurements below and post to forum for comment.
      • vehicle only, F&R.
      • caravan on, vehicle wheel loads, caravan wheel loads and drawbar weight without WDH
      • caravan on, vehicle wheel loads, caravan wheel loads and drawbar weight with WDH connected
      Had a look at the OzTec site and will contact them tomorrow.

      I had looked earlier at the Cooper S/T Maxx as an option along with others (Nitto Ridge Grapplers, Pirelli Scorpion AT+) but the Coopers list price of $460 and price and availability issues on the others as well as good reports from mates with the Razr AT 811 is steering me towards the Razrs. I also am encouraged by reports of the Razrs being good in the wet and relatively quiet.

      Regards
      John

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jdk View Post
        good reports from mates with the Razr AT 811 is steering me towards the Razrs. I also am encouraged by reports of the Razrs being good in the wet and relatively quiet.
        Hello John,

        Wifey runs these and they do work well, I am not confident on the quite tyre as I have thought the rear diff was dieing a number of times but it was just the tyres. But yes overall a great tyre. I do have a mate with a gen 2 with large 33 Grapplers and these are very quiet compared.

        Cheers

        Oldn64
        95 White LWB Panda coloured GLS TD28 rebuilt running 18psi, 3" lift, 2" body lift, factory LSD maxxis bighorn MT - Club reg

        Daughters - 2003 NP Exceed Silver, 2" Lift, new race prepped 3.5 v6 (high comp king race bearings, hasting race rings) ported heads & inlet. Rebuilt Auto, extra cooler.

        Wifey - 2014 NW GLS White 3.2TD manual, 2" lift, 17" CSA Jackels, Maxxis Razr MT (275/70), bushskiz ubody, ARB Sahara, Smittybuilt 12000lbs Winch, dynema rope, twin batteries, GME tx4100, rear drawers

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by oldn64 View Post

          Hello John,

          Wifey runs these and they do work well, I am not confident on the quite tyre as I have thought the rear diff was dieing a number of times but it was just the tyres. But yes overall a great tyre. I do have a mate with a gen 2 with large 33 Grapplers and these are very quiet compared.

          Cheers

          Oldn64
          The unibody/monocoque construction of the Gen3/4 Pajero is more susceptible to driveline, tyre and road noise that 4wds that have a body on chassis construction.

          OJ.
          2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
          MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by old Jack View Post

            The unibody/monocoque construction of the Gen3/4 Pajero is more susceptible to driveline, tyre and road noise that 4wds that have a body on chassis construction.

            OJ.
            Yes I knew that but was amazed as to how much (also seeing the OP has a gen 4 i though they would like to know real world gen 4 owners experience . Even the Maxxis Bighorns I have on my gen 2 are noiser than the Grapplers that my mate has. but about the same as the Razrs on wifie's Gen 4. Just means I might be looking at the Razr's when the Bighorns are no longer round and black

            Let face the facts for me to give a comparason. I love cars and have for ages. I have a VH SLE 5L with legal limit exhaust (96dB) I run a race car whihc has legal track limit of 70dB (30m from the track) this means that the car is actually 125dB at normal testing areas. I know what loud is, but this was almost annoying. Even my VQ Statesman is at 94dB. the drone the tyre produces was disturbing as it sound like the rear diff was having an issue. I checked everythign and even swpped my spare set of rims and tyres across to verify.

            Cheers

            Oldn64
            95 White LWB Panda coloured GLS TD28 rebuilt running 18psi, 3" lift, 2" body lift, factory LSD maxxis bighorn MT - Club reg

            Daughters - 2003 NP Exceed Silver, 2" Lift, new race prepped 3.5 v6 (high comp king race bearings, hasting race rings) ported heads & inlet. Rebuilt Auto, extra cooler.

            Wifey - 2014 NW GLS White 3.2TD manual, 2" lift, 17" CSA Jackels, Maxxis Razr MT (275/70), bushskiz ubody, ARB Sahara, Smittybuilt 12000lbs Winch, dynema rope, twin batteries, GME tx4100, rear drawers

            Comment


            • #7
              Tye noise is subjective.

              I regularly drive a NW Pajero that has had ST Maxx tyres fitted for the last 100,000+Kms so I can hear the difference in tyre noise between the Pajero and my PB Challenger that also has ST Maxx tyres fitted. New tyres are always quiet, but I find that by 7,500km they start becoming noisy and must be rotated to minimise noise, if you leave the tyre rotation until 10,000kms the noise is more difficult to reduce. I have also found that tyre noise increases substantially on the Pajero if the wheel alignment is not correct. Having run 4 sets ST Maxx tyres on my Challenger over the last 10 years I am well away of the negatives characteristics of these tyres but for me the positive still outweigh the negative.

              OJ.
              2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
              MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by old Jack View Post
                Hi John,

                Welcome, I corrected the thead title, hope you do not mind.

                Hopefully you have read the hundreds of posts regarding suspension upgrades on Gen3/4 Pajero's, and you have learnt it is easy to get wrong and difficult to get perfect so a good compromise is the best outcome possible. Without knowing your axle weights it is difficult to advise of coil options and implications of using particular coils.

                King coils are my go to coil as they have the best range, great quality and warranty and are reasonably priced.

                For general recreational 4wding best struts and shockers in my opinion are OzTec, these dampeners ride softer than Bilstein/Old Man Emu and KYB and have stronger rebound control, so they are more suited for rough roads. OzTec also have a much longer warranty. Koni have a proven track record in remote touring applications but come at a greater cost. Dobinson MT/IMS have similar valving characteristics to OzTec but are more expensive and are heavier duty, they do have a shorter warranty and have only been on the market for a few years.

                Suspension comfort and handling are very much a personal choice and it is impossible to get a suspension that rides like a limo, carries variable load of up to 700kg, handles like a sports car, never wears out or fails, and is a reasonable price.

                Tyre choice and tyre pressures also have an effect on how the suspension behaves, change tres from light duty HT to heavy duty MT's and so have not only increased your unsprung weight considerably, but you have also fitted a tyre that is stiffer and will transmit more energy into the suspension. Even 5 psi diffrence in tyre pressures can effect how the suspension rides and handles.

                OJ.
                Not wanting to high jack the thread but I'm struggling to choose between OzTec and Dobinson IMS shocks for my Gen3.
                Gen3 3.2 auto - when away touring I'm pretty much at max axle weights fr & rr and towing 1700kg of Camprite camper.
                I seem to be very talented at finding the worst corrugated routes anywhere and don't mind getting off road and bouncing around.
                Also drive it work every day when not away...

                OzTec - website has very limited technical info apart from 40mm dia tubes and quality construction overseas. I struggle to find any negative press, only plenty of praise for the product.

                Dobinson IMS - technically on paper they look superior with 50mm bores, all the good gear and huge oil capacity. Found a bit of negative press regarding the MRR (remote reservoir hollywood jobs) failures (Shark Caver) but apparently the valving and obviously external oil issues are corrected in the IMR units??? The IMR units still have the nipples for the external canisters on them so they are obviously closely related which does concern me.

                I can get the Dobinson IMR's delivered for $100 more than the OzTec's so price is not an issue. Any feedback or product reviews would be appreciated and helpful for all Gen3 onward owners...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bambam351 View Post

                  Not wanting to high jack the thread but I'm struggling to choose between OzTec and Dobinson IMS shocks for my Gen3.
                  Gen3 3.2 auto - when away touring I'm pretty much at max axle weights fr & rr and towing 1700kg of Camprite camper.
                  I seem to be very talented at finding the worst corrugated routes anywhere and don't mind getting off road and bouncing around.
                  Also drive it work every day when not away...

                  OzTec - website has very limited technical info apart from 40mm dia tubes and quality construction overseas. I struggle to find any negative press, only plenty of praise for the product.

                  Dobinson IMS - technically on paper they look superior with 50mm bores, all the good gear and huge oil capacity. Found a bit of negative press regarding the MRR (remote reservoir hollywood jobs) failures (Shark Caver) but apparently the valving and obviously external oil issues are corrected in the IMR units??? The IMR units still have the nipples for the external canisters on them so they are obviously closely related which does concern me.

                  I can get the Dobinson IMR's delivered for $100 more than the OzTec's so price is not an issue. Any feedback or product reviews would be appreciated and helpful for all Gen3 onward owners...
                  Hi BamBam,

                  What suspension setup are you running now and how many kms?

                  On my PB Challenger I ran Lovells coils and Bilstein struts and shockers for about 90,000kms, on road handling was great but off road the Bilstein's were too soft on rebound and the rear suspension would get up a "harmonic pogo" at certain speed in dune country. I also had 3 front struts fail/leak because of the shaft flexing chopping out the seals and scoring the shafts when paired with the Lovells front coils.

                  So almost 4 years ago, and after much research I decided to replace the front coils with a taller but lower spring rate coils from Dobinson, paired with MT struts, whilst I was doing this I also replaced the Bilstein rear shockers with Dobinson MT's but kept the custom Lovells EHDVR coils that we developed after to other rear Lovells coils failed twice to meet my requirements.

                  The Dobinson MT has now been replaced by the IMS range, and on paper they look to be better than the MT's but have similar valving characteristics. The MT's dampening rate is fast/soft on compression and slow/firm on rebound, on road this translates to more body roll but over rough roads the suspension is more comfortable and compliant, off road the rear suspension no longer develops a harmonic pogo/ uncontrollable pitching, but the front suspension bottoms out more easily. More has been gained than lost and after 60,000kms with this setup I am in no hurry to replace it with an alternative. I was concerned about the longevity of the MT since the MRR had a woeful reputation, so it was a risk. If they failed then OzTec was my fall back position.

                  I did quite a bit of research on OzTec, and the compression is softer/faster than the Bilstein but slightly firmer/slower than the Dobinson, and rebound is firmer/slower than the Bilstein's but slightly softer/faster than the Dobinson, hence I believe the OzTec are a good all round recreational 4wd strut/shocker with a slight off road bias. OzTec have a great warranty and are well constructed.

                  I regularly drive an NW that has had King/Bilstein setup for just over 100,000kms, and recently the rear shockers failed so OzTec were fitted, they are much better than stuffed Bilstein and so they should be. The front struts also need doing put the NW's owner will not do these for another 6 months, so I can not give an opinion yet.

                  So what to choose? If you were doing more than 25 percentage of the yearly kms off the bitumen on poorly maintained roads and tracks then I would choose Dobinson IMS, otherwise I would choose the OzTec.

                  Unfortunately we do not get to test suspension setups back to back when new so a direct comparison is difficult, same with tyres. However you do know when you get a bad setup or a setup that is not to your liking.

                  OJ.

                  2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                  MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oldn 64 - thanks for the feedback on the Razrs.

                    Old Jack

                    Went to the weighbridge today and made the weight and EBH measurements. Attached table summarises the three cases:
                    1. Pajero and van, unhitched
                    2. Hitched no WDH connected
                    3. Hitched with WDH connected

                    Image 14-1-22 at 02.04.jpg

                    (numbers don't add up, probably due to weighbridge accuracy and rounding to10kg. Paj and van unhitched weighed 20kg more than hitched somehow)

                    Interesting to see the 160kg drawbar weight add 280kg to the rear and take 140kg off the front with the WDH not connected, then the WDH shifted 160 from the front to the rear. Front ending up with close to original load when caravan not connected.

                    I believe these numbers are similar to those of PaulMcg some time back. His usage requirements are similar to mine so I'm thinking his solution of front KCFR-34H and rear KCRR-35 with Dobinson IMS front and rear may suit me.

                    My uncertainties are twofold.
                    First, will the KCFR-34H be stiff enough to cope with Smartbar, winch with Dyneema rope and bash plates yet to fitted, without losing too much of the lift. Suspension on previous Paj was OME with front coil of 14.11kg/mm so is the 34-H at 11.9 too light? Going to KCFR-34HD takes it to 13.6 kg/mm which is getting close to the OME coils which were too harsh, but it's a bit less and with the better Dobinson shocks maybe the ride would be better.
                    Second question relates to rear. OME coils at 12.5-16kg/mm worked well when towing and used in conjunction with WDH and airbags where necessary, while not being too harsh unladen. The KCRR-35 is similar at 11.7-17.8 kg/mm so I assume would be suitable, but most selection tables on supplier websites would suggest 35HD which is significantly stiffer at 14 - 22 kg/mm.

                    Would be very grateful for some comment OJ regarding this proposal and likely resulting performance/ride heights. This vehicle is our only one and is the town car as well as bush truck, so I'm hoping to get the balance of suburban comfort with a load capacity when towing a relatively small caravan assisted by WDH and airbags.

                    Also any users with this setup or similar how you feel about it after a period of use.

                    Regards
                    John

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi John, I have the KC-FR34H on my pajero. I have a factory alloy bar, larger than standard battery (but no second battery) and a full set of steel bashplates.

                      Front axle weight is about 1240 kgs normal everyday loads (Inc driver and passenger)

                      The spring is advertised giving 40mm lift. My front heights are about 540mm so spot on.

                      I've had them on for about 10,000 k's and I find them perfect (well for me!) They give what I would call a firm, but not hard, ride.

                      I won't go into my rear springs as my loading and towing needs are very different to yours (much lighter)
                      2016 NX GLS Factory alloy bar, Provent 200 catch can, Boos bash plates (full set), Stedi light bar, 40 litre Waeco, Titan fridge slide, Kings springs, Dunlop ATG3s, Auto-mate, Ultragauge, Uniden 8080s, more to come...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks for the feedback Two Emms. Good to hear it's working for you. Your front end loads sound similar to mine; my winch increases load, but standard battery and maybe alloy bash plates to offset as well.
                        JK

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by old Jack View Post

                          Hi BamBam,

                          What suspension setup are you running now and how many kms?

                          On my PB Challenger I ran Lovells coils and Bilstein struts and shockers for about 90,000kms, on road handling was great but off road the Bilstein's were too soft on rebound and the rear suspension would get up a "harmonic pogo" at certain speed in dune country. I also had 3 front struts fail/leak because of the shaft flexing chopping out the seals and scoring the shafts when paired with the Lovells front coils.

                          So almost 4 years ago, and after much research I decided to replace the front coils with a taller but lower spring rate coils from Dobinson, paired with MT struts, whilst I was doing this I also replaced the Bilstein rear shockers with Dobinson MT's but kept the custom Lovells EHDVR coils that we developed after to other rear Lovells coils failed twice to meet my requirements.

                          The Dobinson MT has now been replaced by the IMS range, and on paper they look to be better than the MT's but have similar valving characteristics. The MT's dampening rate is fast/soft on compression and slow/firm on rebound, on road this translates to more body roll but over rough roads the suspension is more comfortable and compliant, off road the rear suspension no longer develops a harmonic pogo/ uncontrollable pitching, but the front suspension bottoms out more easily. More has been gained than lost and after 60,000kms with this setup I am in no hurry to replace it with an alternative. I was concerned about the longevity of the MT since the MRR had a woeful reputation, so it was a risk. If they failed then OzTec was my fall back position.

                          I did quite a bit of research on OzTec, and the compression is softer/faster than the Bilstein but slightly firmer/slower than the Dobinson, and rebound is firmer/slower than the Bilstein's but slightly softer/faster than the Dobinson, hence I believe the OzTec are a good all round recreational 4wd strut/shocker with a slight off road bias. OzTec have a great warranty and are well constructed.

                          I regularly drive an NW that has had King/Bilstein setup for just over 100,000kms, and recently the rear shockers failed so OzTec were fitted, they are much better than stuffed Bilstein and so they should be. The front struts also need doing put the NW's owner will not do these for another 6 months, so I can not give an opinion yet.

                          So what to choose? If you were doing more than 25 percentage of the yearly kms off the bitumen on poorly maintained roads and tracks then I would choose Dobinson IMS, otherwise I would choose the OzTec.

                          Unfortunately we do not get to test suspension setups back to back when new so a direct comparison is difficult, same with tyres. However you do know when you get a bad setup or a setup that is not to your liking.

                          OJ.
                          Thanks for the detailed reply OJ.

                          I currently run 8yo Lovells struts, shocks and springs(strut now leaking after 130K, 290 on the clock now). I can't find the paperwork but pretty sure it's:

                          Frt - CFR-90EHD spring. Pretty happy with how the front end goes - will probably keep those springs.

                          Rr - CRR-91 with airbags to 30psi. Thinking of upgrading to a more suitable spring. When loaded and towing it sits well with 30psi in the bags but without the bags it noticeably sags and upsets the cars balance and steering. I would prefer to have less reliance on the bags but don't want it to be an absolute pig when not fully loaded (I know, not asking for much...). There are plenty of posts to pour through regarding the springs.

                          Running all the usual stuff - steel bullbar, towbar, Rhino platform rack, rear drawer setup, fridge, battery, compressor, recovery gear, TREADS, spares, tools etc.
                          The Camprite is 1700kg with about 150kg ball weight.
                          Fully loaded the Paj is at max 2760 kg GVM and either through good management or good luck the fr / rr axle loads check out give or take 10-20kg

                          I really want to say that I spend 25% of the time off road exploring this great state of WA but I would be kidding myself...
                          But when we do we like to get amongst it and heavily corrugated roads and slow rough tracks are usually involved.
                          The current setup is great on the blacktop and around town but I'm really hoping to improve the dash rattling ride on corrugations.
                          Off road articulation seems to be pretty good as is, hopefully a heavier rear spring doesn't reduce that too much.

                          For an extra $100 the IMR's are great value for what on paper looks to be a very well built top end style shock.
                          Those RMM failures have me second guessing the reliability bit though...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I run Kings HD springs on th back and tow a van which is about 2400kg and 190 on the ball. I'm very happy with them after trying a couple of others first.
                            2015 NX GLS, Factory alloy bar, Kings HD Springs & Koni Shocks with 50mm lift, MM Auto Mate, Paddle shift kit, dual batteries with Redarc DC/DC, LRA 58L tank, Safari snorkel, Boo's bash plates (full set), 17" steels with BFG KO2's, Drifta drawers with slide, TPMS, Uniden UH8080S, Alpine iLX-702D head unit.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi John, please find my comments in blue font within your post.

                              OJ.

                              Originally posted by jdk View Post
                              Oldn 64 - thanks for the feedback on the Razrs.

                              Old Jack

                              Went to the weighbridge today and made the weight and EBH measurements. Attached table summarises the three cases:
                              1. Pajero and van, unhitched
                              2. Hitched no WDH connected
                              3. Hitched with WDH connected

                              Image 14-1-22 at 02.04.jpg

                              The minimum legal rear ride height is 488mm so even with the WDH connected the rear ride height is lower than this.

                              (numbers don't add up, probably due to weighbridge accuracy and rounding to10kg. Paj and van unhitched weighed 20kg more than hitched somehow)
                              I believe most certified weighbridges only have 20kg accuracy, so on a 20 ton weighbridge 20kg is 1/10th of 1%.

                              Interesting to see the 160kg drawbar weight add 280kg to the rear and take 140kg off the front with the WDH not connected, then the WDH shifted 160 from the front to the rear. Front ending up with close to original load when caravan not connected.
                              How did you determine the towball down load? Has this scale been checked for accuracy? If you towball centre is inline with the rear most face of the spare wheel cover then a 280kg extra rear axle load calculates back to a 180kg towball down load. Your current WDH setup is applying a little too much tension as you should aim to have the front ride height return to the pre-hitched height. This is why there need to be positive rake angle of 30mm to 45mm between front and rear ride heights.

                              I believe these numbers are similar to those of PaulMcg some time back. His usage requirements are similar to mine so I'm thinking his solution of front KCFR-34H and rear KCRR-35 with Dobinson IMS front and rear may suit me.
                              I seem to recall that Paul McG front ride heights were too high when his camper trailer was hitched up so we went down a spring length but kept the same spring rate, the exact part numbers will be in a post somewhere. I also recall that he only has a nudge bar and maybe some aftermarket underbody plates fitted, if my memory is correct..

                              My uncertainties are twofold.
                              First, will the KCFR-34H be stiff enough to cope with Smartbar, winch with Dyneema rope and bash plates yet to fitted, without losing too much of the lift. Suspension on previous Paj was OME with front coil of 14.11kg/mm so is the 34-H at 11.9 too light? Going to KCFR-34HD takes it to 13.6 kg/mm which is getting close to the OME coils which were too harsh, but it's a bit less and with the better Dobinson shocks maybe the ride would be better.
                              The front ride height is determined by a combination of the spring rate, coil free length and the pre-load caused by the lower coil seta height. The advantage of the IMS struts is that there is some adjustment available in the lower coil seat, but this must be done with the strut removed and the coil compressed.
                              The factory front coils have a free length of 315mm and a spring rate of 10.36kg/mm and I consider this spring rate too light. King KCFR-34H have a free length of 335mm and a spring rate of 11.98kg/mm and the 34HD has a free height of only 320mm and spring rate of 13.6kg/mm. I would wait until the Smartbar and winch are fitted an then re weigh both axles because there is a leverage factor to consider that will transfer weight off the rear axle and on to the front, in principle the same as the multiplying effect of towball downloads have on the rear axle.

                              Second question relates to rear. OME coils at 12.5-16kg/mm worked well when towing and used in conjunction with WDH and airbags where necessary, while not being too harsh unladen. The KCRR-35 is similar at 11.7-17.8 kg/mm so I assume would be suitable, but most selection tables on supplier websites would suggest 35HD which is significantly stiffer at 14 - 22 kg/mm.
                              Factory rear coils have a free length of 350mm and a linear spring rate of 11,6kg/mm which is way too short and soft for your loads.
                              The KCRR-35HD has a free length of 335/345mm and progressive spring rates of 14.3 to 22.3 kg/mm. I have fitted these to a Gen 4 NW and done actual load test, at 1250kg rear axle load the EBH was 568mm so 35mm above factory specification and at 1430kg rear axle load the rear EBH was 558mm. There will be a variance in coil free lengths and the compression on the upper and lower coil insulators which will have a multiplying effect on the ride height for any given load. So given your rear axle loads this coil would work without airbags bur ride significantly firmer than the factory coils..
                              Either the KCRR-35 with a free length of 345/355mm and progressive spring rates of 11.8 to17.8kg/mm + airbags or the KCRR-35C with a a free length of 370/380mm and progressive spring rates of 9.6 to 15.3kg/mm + airbags would also do the job and provide a softer more comfortable ride when empty. The KCRR-35C will ride softer than the KCRR-35.

                              Would be very grateful for some comment OJ regarding this proposal and likely resulting performance/ride heights. This vehicle is our only one and is the town car as well as bush truck, so I'm hoping to get the balance of suburban comfort with a load capacity when towing a relatively small caravan assisted by WDH and airbags.

                              Also any users with this setup or similar how you feel about it after a period of use.

                              Regards
                              John
                              2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                              MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

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