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  • TC lockup kit

    Hi Guys,
    Has anyone fitted a torque Convertor lockup switch to their PB Challenger?

    I have read all the post from the Pajero owners and there does not seem to be any issues if used correctly and 99.9% seem to happy they did it. There are a few nay- sayers but they have not fitted them, and I am yet to find someone that fitted one and does not use or has removed it.

    cheers, old Jack.
    2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
    MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

  • #2
    I am very curious about fitting one myself, have you queried the cost of fitting one Jack?
    I feel it would be a real benefit when towing, i wonder what effect it would have on fuel economy.

    cheers
    mods, bridgestone 694 LT 265/65, ulitmate suspension 2 in with poly airbags, side awning

    Comment


    • #3
      Picard, you can purchase a kit for $350 ex Australia and cheaper systems from overseas, from my reading it appears that the electronic lockup dampener clutch on the torque covertor uses a PWM (pulse width modulation) actuation which means the torque convertor never locks up 100%. Today I installed a led indicator which I hope will give me a visual indication of the pulse cycles of the lockup clutch so I can understand what is happening. My current plan is to build up my own system that automatically disengages once the brake pedal is pushed roughly half way or when the rpm drops below a certain level in all modes except low range 4wd. Trick is to do this without triggering ECU fault codes. I would prefer to learn from other people's mistakes rather than make too many of my own.

      cheers, old Jack.
      2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
      MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

      Comment


      • #4
        more info please?

        Hi, just had a 60 minute Wikipedia and Popular Mechanics (from the Feb 1955 issue!) crash course in auto transmissions and learned a little about TC's and clutch lockups so forgive my ignorance in advance. I think I know what may be happening based on observation, but to better understand why I might need to manually override it, can anyone help me with some answers about how I can tell if the lockup clutch is kicking in and out? Is this it: Let's say I'm going up a bit of an incline and am forcing the engine to fourth on the "manual" selector, and push the throttle a bit more and the revs kick up, accompanied by a considerable increase in whine, but without the gear indicator moving away from fourth, is that the TC unlocking?

        I have another perplexing issue about the Challengers affinity for second gear but will post that in another thread.
        Now: MY14 NW with:
        Before: MY10 PB Challenger with: lotsa experience

        Comment


        • #5
          TC monitoring progress.

          2 weeks ago I fitted a LED in the AT ECU circuit to indicate when the TC was locked up, this worked ok but it did not tell me what % lockup was being achieved. According to the Service Manual, TC lockup is variable from 70% to 99%, I have been able to measure this variable lockup/voltage drop with my multimeter but my meter times out after 5 mins. So I fitted a 8 to 30vdc digital voltmeter I had (waiting to be fitted to my aux batteries) however this gave me the same indication as the LED and not my multimeter but at least I could see when the TC was partially locked to locked.

          TC lockup can only occur in 4th & 5th gears (does also work in low range 4th)

          Last week I did 900km of country driving so I had ample time to watch what and when things happened. The TC was locked for much longer periods than I could pick from RPM or by "feel", but it did unlock very easily with changes in throttle position and load. With some practice I was able to keep the TC locked up whilst maintaining speed up gently hills. I was only able to achieve TC lockup in 4th down to 85kph but a week later I can do it at 65kph, I am not sure if it is the Smart Logic of the AT ECU or the change in my driving style that has facilitated this but TC lockup in 4th is still a long way short of the 57kph/1650rpm that is stated in the Service Manual (see attached chart).

          I have ordered a 4 digit voltmeter 3-30Vdc which I will install to see if I can measure the variable component of the TC lockup. I think at this stage I may have a problem with the Dampener Clutch Control Solenoid or Valve so I wish to get some more data before the car goes in for its pre Kimberley service.

          cheers, old Jack.
          Attached Files
          2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
          MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

          Comment


          • #6
            hi old jack was just thinking that the fact that the tc wont lock up in 3rd could have something to do with the auto looking in to 2nd iv found that long climbs when towing in 4th are fine if you need to drop down to 3rd for a climb after a couple of minutes it locks its self in to 2nd possibly a preemptive move to stop the auto over heating

            Comment


            • #7
              I think you are correct, the TC will only lockup in 4th and 5th and this is controlled by the AT ECU. In "self protect" mode the AT ECU will firstly limit change down to 3rd and if "conditions" do not improve then it automatically changes down to 2nd this is to prevent TC from extended periods of high slip and therefore heat generation. I suspect there is also an interface with the Engine ECU that would reduce power if the "conditions" did not return to within normal limits.

              I am still waiting for my new voltmeter to wire in so I can monitor the TC.

              cheers, old Jack.
              2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
              MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

              Comment


              • #8
                Don't know if the info on the folowing linked thread is relevant to what you are doing old Jack as it's mainly about auto shift characteristics but it does involve altering line pressure. The main poster thought initially it was PWM controlled but it turned out to be resistor controlled. http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissa...esistor-35866/
                Richard.......MY12 silver base model auto rear driver tow truck and shopping trolley. Bilsteins, Firestone rear air bags, HR towbar, Scangauge II and aftermarket reverse camera/GPS navigation unit. SOLD

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for the link Richard, I do not know for 100% sure how the Challengers TC is controlled hence the voltmeter mod. I like the idea of having a "variable" manual over-ride for the TC lockup.

                  cheers, old Jack.
                  2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                  MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My new 4 digital voltmeter turned up yesterday, $12 of EBay, fitted this morning
                    Actually sent a 5 digit so I can read to 3 decimal places at 10vdc and above and 4 decimal places below!



                    Now I can see what is actually happening with the PWM of the Torque Convertor lockup dampener clutch working.

                    Tests this morning confirm the TC will not lockup in 4th until 65kph with a very light throttle, mmmmm.
                    I still have not been able to correctly calibrate the TPS (throttle position sensor) on my ScangaugeII . Can anyone help?

                    cheers, old Jack.
                    Last edited by old Jack; 07-05-13, 12:54 PM. Reason: add photo
                    2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                    MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have copied the following post across from the "Towing" thread as it is related specifically to this subject.

                      Further reading on the PWM control that locks up the Torque Convertor 70% to 99% is that even at the max level the duration of the lockup is only 4 seconds max and any longer than this and fault codes are triggered in the AT ECU. I can see this happening on the digital voltmeter I fitted, that measures to 4 decimal places, voltage is not stable.

                      Apparently the torque convertor acts in a similar way to the dual mass flywheel and clutch plate in a manual trans, it is not only a "fuse", be it a mechanical or fluid type, but it also acts as a vibration isolator so vibrations from the diesel engine are not transmitted to the driveline and body. So just as a worn dual mass flywheel or clutch plate generate a "shudder", a worn TC, incorrect or overheated ATF can cause the same sort of "shudder".

                      I thought that the Challenger's 5 speed auto was the same as the NT/NW Pajero's and late model Prado's but with some advise from Pickle I now know this is not the case. The trans is a V5A5 Jatco so if anyone can find some info on this trans it would be greatly appreciated.

                      cheers, old Jack.
                      2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                      MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by old Jack View Post
                        The trans is a V5A5 Jatco so if anyone can find some info on this trans it would be greatly appreciated.

                        cheers, old Jack.
                        JATCO is a Nissan/Mitsubishi spin off company. You may be better to research on the Nissan forums to get more information.
                        SOLD MY11 PB LS Challenger Manual,

                        MY18 Ford Ranger Wildtrak, Auto. Smartbar Stealth. Warn 9k winch, Redarc dual battery system. over tub rack system. Minecorp phone mount. Folding Phone and UHF antennae mounts. 9" LED driving lights. Assortment of extras from Tickford.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sure it's not a Jatco V5A51 old Jack? That is a five speeder used by Mitsubishi and there is a heap of info online for it, including manuals, whereas there is bugger all when searching V5A5. Which leads me to believe that the V5A5 reference is incomplete.
                          Richard.......MY12 silver base model auto rear driver tow truck and shopping trolley. Bilsteins, Firestone rear air bags, HR towbar, Scangauge II and aftermarket reverse camera/GPS navigation unit. SOLD

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 260DET View Post
                            Sure it's not a Jatco V5A51 old Jack? That is a five speeder used by Mitsubishi and there is a heap of info online for it, including manuals, whereas there is bugger all when searching V5A5. Which leads me to believe that the V5A5 reference is incomplete.
                            I thought the same until last night, Pickle PMed me so I did some more searching, the V5A51 is made by Aisin and has been around for about 10 years in many variations, it is fitted to the later model Pajero's, Prado's and many other vehicles so there is heaps of info online.

                            The PB Challenger Service Manual specifications list the auto trans as a V5A5-J-xxxx but does not list the manufacturer (I presume the "J" in the model number is for Jatco), it appears this trans is made by Jatco (a division of Nissan) but there is very little on the internet on this trans or I am searching the wrong way!

                            cheers, old Jack.

                            I have Dave's ok to post this PM.

                            Originally Posted by Pickle
                            Just talked to the engineers at Mitsu heads office to confirm. Challengers and Tritons are running the Jatco boxes. They also said it is safe to tow in fifth gear without any concerns.
                            Dave
                            Last edited by old Jack; 23-05-13, 12:23 PM. Reason: PM Pickle
                            2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                            MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              We should be a bit careful I think before coming to transmission identification conclusions eg there can be variations made of the one basic box to suit various applications. 4WD and rear wheel drive only variations, changes such as adding more clutch plates for a higher power application and so on. All those variations are going to require a change in the ID number even though it is still the same basic box.

                              My understanding is that Jatco make a basic transmission for certain general applications eg for a medium to heavy SUV. They then can change a limited range of internals or externals to suit a particular vehicle within that SUV range.

                              Therfore I would be very surprised if Jatco made two different but of similar type basic five speed transmissions for two SUV's like the Pajero and Challenger which are broadly similar in their transmission requirements.
                              Last edited by 260DET; 24-05-13, 10:58 AM.
                              Richard.......MY12 silver base model auto rear driver tow truck and shopping trolley. Bilsteins, Firestone rear air bags, HR towbar, Scangauge II and aftermarket reverse camera/GPS navigation unit. SOLD

                              Comment

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