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Signed on the dotted line - goodbye PB, hello D-Max

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  • Signed on the dotted line - goodbye PB, hello D-Max

    Well, finally signed up for the replacement of my 2010 LSX today for a LS-T D-Max due in Australia around mid February 2014.

    The Challenger has been a great set of wheels but as we intend doing a few laps around the block towing our 2500kg ATM van I feel the Challenger is challenged () doing the job. A smaller van and I would have no hesitation keeping it but it really struggles at this weight, How they would go towing 3t is beyond me.

    New rig is being decked out with long range tank (no more 250km to the tank while towing), canopy, drawers, dual battery with solar for fridge, bullbar, LED spot/flood lights plus CB & Clearview mirrors. By the time all this was added I also had to include a GVM upgrade that give an extra 270kg on the payload.

    Cheers
    Bob

  • #2
    Originally posted by Bobkat View Post
    Well, finally signed up for the replacement of my 2010 LSX today for a LS-T D-Max due in Australia around mid February 2014.

    The Challenger has been a great set of wheels but as we intend doing a few laps around the block towing our 2500kg ATM van I feel the Challenger is challenged () doing the job. A smaller van and I would have no hesitation keeping it but it really struggles at this weight, How they would go towing 3t is beyond me.

    New rig is being decked out with long range tank (no more 250km to the tank while towing), canopy, drawers, dual battery with solar for fridge, bullbar, LED spot/flood lights plus CB & Clearview mirrors. By the time all this was added I also had to include a GVM upgrade that give an extra 270kg on the payload.

    Cheers
    Bob
    Sounds like the new machine will be ready to go, have you upgraded the tyres, I found this the cheapest way to do it as you will get better trade on the tyres if the dealer does it for you, cost me $800 for five Mickey Thomoson ATZ's when I got the challenger.
    MY12 LS Challenger (cool silver) - 7 seater with ARB Deluxe Bar, IPF Driving Lights, Safari Snorkel, Stainless Bashplate, Ultimate Suspension Lift, Redarc electric brakes, ERPS, Dual Battery (Redarc DC/DC), Icom UHF, Rhino sports bars / platform, ARB Awning and Mickey Thompson ATZ P3's.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by PeePee View Post
      Sounds like the new machine will be ready to go, have you upgraded the tyres, I found this the cheapest way to do it as you will get better trade on the tyres if the dealer does it for you, cost me $800 for five Mickey Thomoson ATZ's when I got the challenger.
      Had not thought of the tires as all I am doing is upgrading the GVM from 2950 to 3270 kg but the GCM still remains at 5950 kg. I would assume that the standard tires are rated to the full GCM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Are the Isuzu D-Max and Holden Colorado from the same family? eg. Engine, Chassis etc or are they Completely Different ? And where are they made? South Korea, Thailand or Japan ?
        NP 05 Platinum Edition, 3.2 DiD Auto, Extra H/D 50mm Kings, Garmin GPS, Waeco 40, Turbo Smart Boost Gauge, Lambwool Covers, Kumo Tyres, Rock Sliders Pending, Surrey Downs Adelaide Sth Aust.

        Comment


        • #5
          They are both made in Thailand and I believe they share the same chassis with slightly different dressing on the panels.

          The motor and gearbox are also different with the Colorado having a 2.8L with a 6 speed auto whilethe D-Max has 3.0L with 5 speed auto.

          I have heard that the 2015 models will again see both vehicles back using the same body and driver-train parts with a 2.5L engine

          Originally posted by hobbo View Post
          Are the Isuzu D-Max and Holden Colorado from the same family? eg. Engine, Chassis etc or are they Completely Different ? And where are they made? South Korea, Thailand or Japan ?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bobkat View Post
            Had not thought of the tires as all I am doing is upgrading the GVM from 2950 to 3270 kg but the GCM still remains at 5950 kg. I would assume that the standard tires are rated to the full GCM.
            Tyre upgrade is a must with the loads you are carrying and towing, yes the factory tyres may be able to theoretically handle the loads but reality is they will not be reliable in the real world of touring particularly off the bitumen.
            Cheaper to change the tyres on delivery as others have said, an extra $1000 in the total cost is cheap insurance, why take risks that could cost yours or others lives. 10ply rated LT construction AT's are the only way to go.

            I will be interested in hearing your feedback on the D-Max compared to the PB as both engines put out similar power and torque at the similar rpms. I can not find gear & diff ratios for the D-Max (Auto or Manual) so I can do an on paper comparision.

            cheers, old Jack.
            2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
            MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Old Jack.
              Appreciate your thoughts but I am not certain what the tyres are other than 255/65 R17 HT.

              When I started to look into this upgrade I had 4 dualcabs on my search list - Colorado, Ranger, D-Max and BT-50. All 4 are now (D-Max MY14 - earlier model is only 3000kg) rated to tow 3500kg (if you were game) so they are all virtually equal.

              I found a site that allows you to do a comparison between vehicles (http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-resea...re-search.aspx) and then copied it to the attached spreadsheet.

              I then went through each line and rated each vehicle from 1 to 4 (4 being the best) and was then able to rate the 4 cars.


              The BT50 actually scored the highest but when I actually sat in it, it just didn't feel right.

              D-Max just felt right but I had to wait for the MY14 to get the climate control that I really wanted.

              Hope the spreadsheet is of use to others.

              Oops, it is now attached as a zip file.
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bobkat View Post
                Had not thought of the tires as all I am doing is upgrading the GVM from 2950 to 3270 kg but the GCM still remains at 5950 kg. I would assume that the standard tires are rated to the full GCM.
                Out of curiosity, what makes you say the GCM remains the same? Does Isuzu state it on the compliance tags?

                I was involved in a thread on another forum that covered this fairly in depth and, to cut a long story short, if the GCM wasn't stated by the manufacturer then an increase in GVM also resulted in an increase in GCM.

                Another thing to concider is the rear axle load rating, as this isnt increased with a GVM increase.
                Cheers, Bundy.

                Currently: 2001 NM GLS MY2002 3.5 V6 Manual, Bullbar, GME TX3520, Falken Wildpeak A/T02 LT265/70/16, Pacemaker extractors, KYB Skorched 4's, Villain Lighting 22" lightbar, Bushskinz Front and sump guard, Pioneer 7" screen

                Items to be fitted: ARB 2.5 x 2.1 awning.

                Items to be purchased: Bushskinz- Gearbox/Transfer plates and sliders, Roof racks, Safari Snorkel, Lifted Springs, maybe more...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Bundy.

                  My understanding is that the GCM is the maximum of loaded vehicle (GVM) plus the ATM of the caravan being towed. In this case the GCM is 5950kg and is set by the manufacture and is determined by the strength of the vehicle.

                  To increase the GCM would mean as you point out, looking at the rating of wheels, tyres (?), axles etc and increasing those ratings is radically changing the design of the car. By loading up the vehicle with a higher payload will mean that the ATM of the towed trailer will need to be reduced.

                  In my case, the van has an ATM of 2450kg so raising the GVM by 270kg will have no effect as I am well within the limits.

                  Looking at the figures in the attached spreadsheet the D-Max has the following
                  Gross Vehicle Mass 2950kg
                  Gross Combination Mass 5950kg
                  Payload 1010kg

                  Subtracting 2950 from 5950 leaves 3000kg

                  Increasing the GVM by 270kg gives GVM of 3220kg and if the GCM remains at 5950kg, the towing allowance must be reduced to 2730kg - again my van is 2450kg ATM so well within the limit.

                  I have not seen the figures for the MY14 rated at 3500kg towing but they should work the same as above and again at an ATM of 2450kg, it does not matter.

                  This is my understanding of how the numbers work, I may be wrong.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by old Jack View Post
                    Tyre upgrade is a must with the loads you are carrying and towing, yes the factory tyres may be able to theoretically handle the loads but reality is they will not be reliable in the real world of touring particularly off the bitumen.
                    Cheaper to change the tyres on delivery as others have said, an extra $1000 in the total cost is cheap insurance, why take risks that could cost yours or others lives. 10ply rated LT construction AT's are the only way to go.

                    cheers, old Jack.
                    Just another comment on the above, our van is not an off road van so the risk of tyre damage while towing the van on the blacktop is very much reduced. To fork out $800-1000 to upgrade the tyres seems a waste to me and I think I would be better to use the ones that are fitted and fit a tyre monitoring system to both van and car. If I get 50,000km out of the first set of tyres I will be way in front.

                    Keep in mind that I am will within the Gross Combined Mass due to out van having an ATM of 2450kg.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bobkat View Post
                      Hi Bundy.

                      My understanding is that the GCM is the maximum of loaded vehicle (GVM) plus the ATM of the caravan being towed. In this case the GCM is 5950kg and is set by the manufacture and is determined by the strength of the vehicle.

                      To increase the GCM would mean as you point out, looking at the rating of wheels, tyres (?), axles etc and increasing those ratings is radically changing the design of the car. By loading up the vehicle with a higher payload will mean that the ATM of the towed trailer will need to be reduced.

                      In my case, the van has an ATM of 2450kg so raising the GVM by 270kg will have no effect as I am well within the limits.

                      Looking at the figures in the attached spreadsheet the D-Max has the following
                      Gross Vehicle Mass 2950kg
                      Gross Combination Mass 5950kg
                      Payload 1010kg

                      Subtracting 2950 from 5950 leaves 3000kg

                      Increasing the GVM by 270kg gives GVM of 3220kg and if the GCM remains at 5950kg, the towing allowance must be reduced to 2730kg - again my van is 2450kg ATM so well within the limit.

                      I have not seen the figures for the MY14 rated at 3500kg towing but they should work the same as above and again at an ATM of 2450kg, it does not matter.

                      This is my understanding of how the numbers work, I may be wrong.
                      No, the numbers are right, you are correct. Some manufacturers dont state a GCM, hence upgrading the GVM can also increase GCM (mainly Landcruisers). After your post, I went onto the Isuzu website and noticed that the MY14 model has the same 5950 kg GCM, as stated on the site. This means that if you want to hook 3.5t on the back, the ute had better not have much in it. This also means that Isuzu feel the chassis is good for a max GCM of 6t.

                      In short, in your case you are definitely correct in saying that an increase in GVM is a potential decrease in towing capacity, as Isuzu have given a GCM

                      Enjoy the new ute. I know a few people with them and they love them.
                      Cheers, Bundy.

                      Currently: 2001 NM GLS MY2002 3.5 V6 Manual, Bullbar, GME TX3520, Falken Wildpeak A/T02 LT265/70/16, Pacemaker extractors, KYB Skorched 4's, Villain Lighting 22" lightbar, Bushskinz Front and sump guard, Pioneer 7" screen

                      Items to be fitted: ARB 2.5 x 2.1 awning.

                      Items to be purchased: Bushskinz- Gearbox/Transfer plates and sliders, Roof racks, Safari Snorkel, Lifted Springs, maybe more...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bundyk View Post
                        No, the numbers are right, you are correct. Some manufacturers dont state a GCM, hence upgrading the GVM can also increase GCM (mainly Landcruisers). After your post, I went onto the Isuzu website and noticed that the MY14 model has the same 5950 kg GCM, as stated on the site. This means that if you want to hook 3.5t on the back, the ute had better not have much in it. This also means that Isuzu feel the chassis is good for a max GCM of 6t.

                        In short, in your case you are definitely correct in saying that an increase in GVM is a potential decrease in towing capacity, as Isuzu have given a GCM

                        Enjoy the new ute. I know a few people with them and they love them.
                        Thanks Bundy. All the 4 that I looked at are in the same boat, the bigger the tow the less you can carry so it all becomes a compromise but I feel that upgrading the GVM just gives me a bit more leeway. It actually allows me to move some weight from the van to the tug.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bobkat View Post

                          Looking at the figures in the attached spreadsheet the D-Max has the following
                          Gross Vehicle Mass 2950kg
                          Gross Combination Mass 5950kg
                          Payload 1010kg

                          Subtracting 2950 from 5950 leaves 3000kg

                          Increasing the GVM by 270kg gives GVM of 3220kg and if the GCM remains at 5950kg, the towing allowance must be reduced to 2730kg - again my van is 2450kg ATM so well within the limit.
                          Which brand of suspension gave you the GVM increase? Has it been blue plated accordingly?
                          NS Tall and Short (Trakryder/Bilstein 2" lift with Polyairs) DiD "R", Gunmetal on BFG 270/60/17 AT's, TJM Bullbar, 9500lb Ox Winch, Icom 450, AirTech Snorkel, Cargo Barrier, Dual Battery System to power a CF 40, ScanguageII, LRA Auxillary Tank
                          Custom Intercooler/Sump/Transmission Bash Plates and Sliders by http://www.bushskinz4x4.com.au/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JoshF View Post
                            Which brand of suspension gave you the GVM increase? Has it been blue plated accordingly?
                            Presumably the GVM upgrade is also ESC tested/certified to comply with VSB 14?

                            cheers, old Jack.
                            2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                            MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              D-Max GVM upgrades can be done and certified to meet all ADR requirements by - ARB - Pedders - West Coast suspension plus several others are being certified soon.

                              Some Toyota vehicles can be done from the dealers as mine spec vehicles.
                              SOLD MY11 PB LS Challenger Manual,

                              MY18 Ford Ranger Wildtrak, Auto. Smartbar Stealth. Warn 9k winch, Redarc dual battery system. over tub rack system. Minecorp phone mount. Folding Phone and UHF antennae mounts. 9" LED driving lights. Assortment of extras from Tickford.

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