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  • Spring height query

    Hey all,

    Got a query regarding rear springs. I had iron man could installed as part of a kit last year and I've done some measurements today in lieu of getting polyairs for the rear. Measurement came in at 250mm or around 9.85" from the top of the spring to the bottom.

    Out of interest I rang ironman to see what the spring height is new and they said 400mm! I told them my measurement and they said it sounds like my springs might be knackered and to get them looked at.

    My question is what do you guys reckon? Obviously they are gonna sag a bit with the weight of the car and the rooftop tent etc and it doesn't look like it's sagging a dramatic amount just not sure if the measurements from iron man are with zero weight on it and the blokes just not allowing for the weight of the car?
    MY14 NW GLX-R 3.2L Auto Build Thread
    Fitted: 265/70R17 Kanati Mud Hogs. Ultimate Suspension HD Front EHD + bags rear. MM Towbar. OL Bullbar. SPV EGR Mod. Bushskinz Bash Plates x4. Roleys Rear Bar Protector. Icom IC-400Pro. Rhino Pioneer Tradie Rack. CTEK CTD250S w/ Dual Bats. Airtec Snorkel. Scangauge II. Blackvue Dash Cam. TC mod. Autosafe Half Barrier. Masten TPMS. Drifta Custom Drawers w/ Mounted Compressor. 47L ARB Fridge. Domin8rX Winch. Towing an MDC stepthrough.

  • #2
    I would say the springs you brought are just 40mm lift that are fine until the car is loaded, what you need is springs that have lift and constant load rating.
    I had SD lovells but after a wile they sagged so I went HD.
    Rick
    Old, NP Exceed 3.5 petrol, ARB Bull bar, Warn winch, Bush Skinz Bash plates ,2inch lift, Safari Snorkel. ***Now Sold***
    New, RG Colorado Dual Cab Tray

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh and I think that 400mm they told you is free height ie the spring out the box I think.
      Old, NP Exceed 3.5 petrol, ARB Bull bar, Warn winch, Bush Skinz Bash plates ,2inch lift, Safari Snorkel. ***Now Sold***
      New, RG Colorado Dual Cab Tray

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmmmmmmmmm.

        Well I just went and measured. My initial measurements the day the lift kit was fitted (May last year) was just shy of 600mm at the back from the centre of the wheel to the guard. Today it is 545mm which is actually less than the height before the lift was fitted.

        So now my question is thus:

        Do you think the weight of a roof top tent and bars (some 80 odd kgs) and the weight of drawers loaded up (lets say 60kg as a very generous guess) would be enough to sag my rear end that much or do I have a problem here. When I spoke to ironman the other day they said the springs were good for 250KG.

        They've always been pretty friggin saggy when loaded up with camping gear (feels like my towbar goes down to my ankles) but this seems a bit extreme.
        MY14 NW GLX-R 3.2L Auto Build Thread
        Fitted: 265/70R17 Kanati Mud Hogs. Ultimate Suspension HD Front EHD + bags rear. MM Towbar. OL Bullbar. SPV EGR Mod. Bushskinz Bash Plates x4. Roleys Rear Bar Protector. Icom IC-400Pro. Rhino Pioneer Tradie Rack. CTEK CTD250S w/ Dual Bats. Airtec Snorkel. Scangauge II. Blackvue Dash Cam. TC mod. Autosafe Half Barrier. Masten TPMS. Drifta Custom Drawers w/ Mounted Compressor. 47L ARB Fridge. Domin8rX Winch. Towing an MDC stepthrough.

        Comment


        • #5
          Spoke to ironman again. They are gonna assess the springs and replace them with heavier duty springs if they have been found to sag
          MY14 NW GLX-R 3.2L Auto Build Thread
          Fitted: 265/70R17 Kanati Mud Hogs. Ultimate Suspension HD Front EHD + bags rear. MM Towbar. OL Bullbar. SPV EGR Mod. Bushskinz Bash Plates x4. Roleys Rear Bar Protector. Icom IC-400Pro. Rhino Pioneer Tradie Rack. CTEK CTD250S w/ Dual Bats. Airtec Snorkel. Scangauge II. Blackvue Dash Cam. TC mod. Autosafe Half Barrier. Masten TPMS. Drifta Custom Drawers w/ Mounted Compressor. 47L ARB Fridge. Domin8rX Winch. Towing an MDC stepthrough.

          Comment


          • #6
            My rear drops 30mm with a 80L fridge of beer and food, heaps of fishing and camping gear etc. At almost double that in yours I'd say the springs are either buggered or too soft.
            1997 NK - Quad cam goodness turning 33 Duratrac's and 4.9 diffs, 2inch lift, steel front/sides/rear, front locker and a winch

            Now pending: Nothing

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TC.Barky View Post
              Spoke to ironman again. They are gonna assess the springs and replace them with heavier duty springs if they have been found to sag
              Let us know what the outcome of the inspection is mate.

              Cheers,

              Matt
              Ironman 4x4

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ironman 4x4 View Post
                Let us know what the outcome of the inspection is mate.

                Cheers,

                Matt
                Ironman 4x4
                Thanks Matt. Appreciate the reply here too. Will be organising an inspection soon. Just out of curiosity what is the general thoughts of ironman on how much the springs should be dropping here? Does it sound extreme for these springs or is there just too much weight on them? Got told they were good for 250kg, does that mean 250kg before sagging and is that 250kg including weight of the car?
                MY14 NW GLX-R 3.2L Auto Build Thread
                Fitted: 265/70R17 Kanati Mud Hogs. Ultimate Suspension HD Front EHD + bags rear. MM Towbar. OL Bullbar. SPV EGR Mod. Bushskinz Bash Plates x4. Roleys Rear Bar Protector. Icom IC-400Pro. Rhino Pioneer Tradie Rack. CTEK CTD250S w/ Dual Bats. Airtec Snorkel. Scangauge II. Blackvue Dash Cam. TC mod. Autosafe Half Barrier. Masten TPMS. Drifta Custom Drawers w/ Mounted Compressor. 47L ARB Fridge. Domin8rX Winch. Towing an MDC stepthrough.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TC.Barky View Post
                  Thanks Matt. Appreciate the reply here too. Will be organising an inspection soon. Just out of curiosity what is the general thoughts of ironman on how much the springs should be dropping here? Does it sound extreme for these springs or is there just too much weight on them? Got told they were good for 250kg, does that mean 250kg before sagging and is that 250kg including weight of the car?
                  Hey Barky,

                  When we measure sag, we are referring to the free height of the coil i.e. removing the coil from the car and measuring it's height without weight. This provides the most consistant measurement as factors such as full v empty fuel tank, extra gear etc can vary the loaded height quickly.
                  We expect a coil to settle 5-10mm (of free height) after installation and a bit of driving. More than that would possibly point towards and issue (at which point we'd recommend you get the springs inspected).

                  As for the weight ratings, the lift height is at the lower end of the load i.e. your current rears are rated from 0-250kg, at 0kg of load (above stock) you will achieve the 40mm of lift in the rear, but with 250kg of load your springs will droop down to approximately the equivelent of stock height (this all can quickly vary depending on where the weight is placed i.e. don't forget leverage of weight at certain points will multiply the load it is adding.

                  If you are consistantly carrying loads approaching the upper end of the rating it would probably be suggested that you look at more HD coil. For which we now stock a constant load coil for the rear (MITS020C) which is rated from 250kg to GVM.

                  Hope that answers your questions! Let me know if you want me to clarify!

                  Cheers,

                  Matt
                  Ironman 4x4

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ironman 4x4 View Post
                    Hey Barky,

                    When we measure sag, we are referring to the free height of the coil i.e. removing the coil from the car and measuring it's height without weight. This provides the most consistant measurement as factors such as full v empty fuel tank, extra gear etc can vary the loaded height quickly.
                    We expect a coil to settle 5-10mm (of free height) after installation and a bit of driving. More than that would possibly point towards and issue (at which point we'd recommend you get the springs inspected).

                    As for the weight ratings, the lift height is at the lower end of the load i.e. your current rears are rated from 0-250kg, at 0kg of load (above stock) you will achieve the 40mm of lift in the rear, but with 250kg of load your springs will droop down to approximately the equivelent of stock height (this all can quickly vary depending on where the weight is placed i.e. don't forget leverage of weight at certain points will multiply the load it is adding.

                    If you are consistantly carrying loads approaching the upper end of the rating it would probably be suggested that you look at more HD coil. For which we now stock a constant load coil for the rear (MITS020C) which is rated from 250kg to GVM.

                    Hope that answers your questions! Let me know if you want me to clarify!

                    Cheers,

                    Matt
                    Ironman 4x4
                    Cheers matt, sounds like mine are dropping a bit farther than expected with weight then as I'd be looking at lets say to be generous +150kg over stock weight and I'm sitting 5-10mm below stock spring height. Am I understanding correctly?
                    MY14 NW GLX-R 3.2L Auto Build Thread
                    Fitted: 265/70R17 Kanati Mud Hogs. Ultimate Suspension HD Front EHD + bags rear. MM Towbar. OL Bullbar. SPV EGR Mod. Bushskinz Bash Plates x4. Roleys Rear Bar Protector. Icom IC-400Pro. Rhino Pioneer Tradie Rack. CTEK CTD250S w/ Dual Bats. Airtec Snorkel. Scangauge II. Blackvue Dash Cam. TC mod. Autosafe Half Barrier. Masten TPMS. Drifta Custom Drawers w/ Mounted Compressor. 47L ARB Fridge. Domin8rX Winch. Towing an MDC stepthrough.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TC.Barky View Post
                      Cheers matt, sounds like mine are dropping a bit farther than expected with weight then as I'd be looking at lets say to be generous +150kg over stock weight and I'm sitting 5-10mm below stock spring height. Am I understanding correctly?
                      Hey Mate,

                      Yes if you're sitting below stock spring height then you are likely suffering from too much sag.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ironman 4x4 View Post
                        Hey Mate,

                        Yes if you're sitting below stock spring height then you are likely suffering from too much sag.
                        Thanks mate, wanted to make sure it was worth the trouble of getting it looked at or whether I was just expecting too much of them. Will post here with the results.
                        MY14 NW GLX-R 3.2L Auto Build Thread
                        Fitted: 265/70R17 Kanati Mud Hogs. Ultimate Suspension HD Front EHD + bags rear. MM Towbar. OL Bullbar. SPV EGR Mod. Bushskinz Bash Plates x4. Roleys Rear Bar Protector. Icom IC-400Pro. Rhino Pioneer Tradie Rack. CTEK CTD250S w/ Dual Bats. Airtec Snorkel. Scangauge II. Blackvue Dash Cam. TC mod. Autosafe Half Barrier. Masten TPMS. Drifta Custom Drawers w/ Mounted Compressor. 47L ARB Fridge. Domin8rX Winch. Towing an MDC stepthrough.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So I pulled the springs out myself today and rang ironman with some measurements. They're about 5-10mm down each but ironman have said (and I agree) that it's within tolerances. So I wacked a set of polyairs in there today instead (big thanks to Rick for hooking me up with a set!).

                          Thanks simonc, I'll leave it as is for now - the polyairs have made a big difference. Out of interest if you don't mind posting it in public, what price would you be wanting to offload them for?
                          MY14 NW GLX-R 3.2L Auto Build Thread
                          Fitted: 265/70R17 Kanati Mud Hogs. Ultimate Suspension HD Front EHD + bags rear. MM Towbar. OL Bullbar. SPV EGR Mod. Bushskinz Bash Plates x4. Roleys Rear Bar Protector. Icom IC-400Pro. Rhino Pioneer Tradie Rack. CTEK CTD250S w/ Dual Bats. Airtec Snorkel. Scangauge II. Blackvue Dash Cam. TC mod. Autosafe Half Barrier. Masten TPMS. Drifta Custom Drawers w/ Mounted Compressor. 47L ARB Fridge. Domin8rX Winch. Towing an MDC stepthrough.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TC.Barky View Post
                            So I pulled the springs out myself today and rang ironman with some measurements. They're about 5-10mm down each but ironman have said (and I agree) that it's within tolerances. So I wacked a set of polyairs in there today instead (big thanks to Rick for hooking me up with a set!).

                            Thanks simonc, I'll leave it as is for now - the polyairs have made a big difference. Out of interest if you don't mind posting it in public, what price would you be wanting to offload them for?
                            Hey TC Barky,

                            Glad to hear everything was still within tolerances. Just make sure you don't run with the polyairs too pumped up as you could damage your spring hats (unlikely given the weight you are carrying, but always something to consider in the future if you do start carrying heavier loads).

                            If I can help you out with anything else please feel free to give me a yell or even just shoot me a PM.

                            Cheers,

                            Matt
                            Ironman 4x4

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ironman 4x4 View Post
                              Hey TC Barky,

                              Glad to hear everything was still within tolerances. Just make sure you don't run with the polyairs too pumped up as you could damage your spring hats (unlikely given the weight you are carrying, but always something to consider in the future if you do start carrying heavier loads).

                              If I can help you out with anything else please feel free to give me a yell or even just shoot me a PM.

                              Cheers,

                              Matt
                              Ironman 4x4
                              Thanks for the advice Matt, great to have you on here got about 15psi in em for now and ride quality seems ok. Still down a bit on height compared to a mates with the same springs unloaded but its much better. (he's on about 585 I'm on about 570). I could pretty much match the height (580) on 25psi but the ride quality was terrible haha.
                              MY14 NW GLX-R 3.2L Auto Build Thread
                              Fitted: 265/70R17 Kanati Mud Hogs. Ultimate Suspension HD Front EHD + bags rear. MM Towbar. OL Bullbar. SPV EGR Mod. Bushskinz Bash Plates x4. Roleys Rear Bar Protector. Icom IC-400Pro. Rhino Pioneer Tradie Rack. CTEK CTD250S w/ Dual Bats. Airtec Snorkel. Scangauge II. Blackvue Dash Cam. TC mod. Autosafe Half Barrier. Masten TPMS. Drifta Custom Drawers w/ Mounted Compressor. 47L ARB Fridge. Domin8rX Winch. Towing an MDC stepthrough.

                              Comment

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