do i really need new torrsion bars?

[angyork]

About to do a 2" suspension lift. Do I really need to get new torsion bars for this? Do the new ones make a noticeable difference at all? Not sure on the marketing hype and just wanting an honest opinion from someone with the same vehicle.

Any recommendations with brands probably a good idea.

NJ LWB 3000

[6G74]

Definately not, nearly every paj owner thats lifted the front of their car has done it with stock bars - you'll find that you would prolly get a better ride if they replaced, but thats about all.

[MITSIR]

What I have noticed on my Paj when I raised it to 2" with the original torsions is that the ride was abit more bumpier than normal, (I learnt to put up with it)

Only purpose that I can see of why you would need to replace the torsions with aftermarket ones is if the old ones loose there Tension from being lifted to 2" after a while. So as 6G74 said, You will get a better ride if they were replaced with new aftermarket ones. It all depends on the driver at the end of the day how the ride suits them and what there happy with

There is no harm to try and lift the front to 2", See if your happy with the ride. You would might want to shave abit of the top bump stops so it doesn't ride on them which can cause it to be allot bumpier.

Take in mind that the CV Boot might split on you on a later date, mine happened 2 days after (My luck) as the angle of the CV Boot would change from when it was 2" lower. This might not really be a problem if you know how to change a CV Boot, but taking it to a mechanic they might charge you a few hundred Dollars to replace it considering you have 4 rubber boots. this can be a costly lift.

[angyork]

Thanks for the replies

Yeah a lot of people have been telling me about the new torrsion bars, but I know I wont mind the extra bumps... after all it is a 4wd. Looking at it all, the bars don't have to travel that far and dont see the $ value in the new bars.

Wouldn't mind getting a live axle in the front instead of any lift at all. Then just put some 33" pizza cutters on. I hear that Hilux have a bolt in kit. Anyone found a bolt kit for Pajamas?

[PajeroEdge]

I'd be interested to see the outcome of this also. I went to one of the local 4x4 shops last week asking for options. The reply I got was "well your pretty well stuffed, cant do much at all with them, go talk to bobJane and see what they can do with tyers for you" What sort of sales person is that??

I get different opinions from from everyone I talk to, some say wind the bars, job done, others say wind the bars, then see if you need to replace them. Other say dont touch them....

Does anyone know of a nice 'how too' or 'walk though' just so I can get a better understanding of how the bars work and what winding them up actually does? I'm not scared to admit im not a mecahnic and have little understanding of how things work but would like to think im a logical thinking sort of person so would be able to work things out if I had somewhere to start.

(sorry bout the hijack)

[MITSIR]

The torsion bar is simply a spring. A piece of material which when distorted tries to return to its original position. Like the lief and coil, the torsion bar can loose its memory [sag], or break.

Now as force [weight] is applied to the pivot end [control arm] it tries to move and take the torsion bar with it, the opposite end being fastened to the frame, can not move so the bar twists and then tries to return to its position. This being the point at which the pivot end [control arm] originated. With no applied force [weight], the torsion bar will keep its pivot end [control arm] at the position or angle in which it was originally set. As a constant applied Weight\Force acts upon the torsion bar the torsion bar is resisted from returning all the way back to it's set position.

To adjust the ride height of the vehicle by winding the adjuster bolt at the fixed end of the torsion bar does not add any more force [weight] to the pivot [control arm] end of the torsion bar, therefore the pre load is unaffected, hence ride quality and torsion bar life theoretically remain unchanged. Winding the torsion bar adjuster bolt is the same as installing blocks between the axle and lief springs or a set of coil spacers, it simply moves the spring to a different position.

The reason the truck may ride a little stiffer is because of the new angle of the pivot [control arm]. As this angle [control arm to ground] becomes grater, the pivot [control arm] exerts less force on the torsion bar effectively reducing the pre load.

Other reasons for a harsh ride after winding the adjuster bolts is, YOU WENT TOO FAR. This is when there is not enough room or no room between the control arm and upper bump stops, leaving no room for downwards travel of the control arm. When to replace your torsion bars with larger ones is if you have added substantial weight [winch, large bush bar, heavy bumper, heavier engine, etc.] or if you are looking for a firmer ride. The affected longevity of related components such as c.v. joints, ball joints, spindles, etc. will be the same weather the heavier torsion bars are used or the originals are adjusted, since these components are affected by the selected angle of the control arm.

Hope this can explain the setup of Torsion Bars.

[PajeroEdge]

Thank you MITSIR,

the best and easiest description I am yet to find..

While looking at options, I came accross these
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MITSUBISHI-PA...QQcmdZViewItem

Maybe a set of these to go with a 'wind up'?? What do people think?

[angyork]

Thank you MITSIR,

the best and easiest description I am yet to find..

While looking at options, I came accross these
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MITSUBISHI-PA...QQcmdZViewItem

Maybe a set of these to go with a 'wind up'?? What do people think?

We have been looking at Pro Comp springs for the rear. A mate of does competition work and says they are very good. They do not sag after a while like most others and have great travel -- which will make up for the lack of travel in the front. He got into all this stuff about the springs have good memory.

[PajeroEdge]

Following from this I did a drive around last night and got some quotes

1)
Rear Coils - $160 (Kings)
Shocks - $440
Lab to fit and wind bars $130ish

option 2)
$50 to wind the bars and see how I go.

My question now is, can I go the coils with out the shocks for the moment? One place didnt mention shocks, the other seemed to give me no option but to go with them a the same time. I guess going back later you pay double labour.

[angyork]

Following from this I did a drive around last night and got some quotes

1)
Rear Coils - $160 (Kings)
Shocks - $440
Lab to fit and wind bars $130ish

option 2)
$50 to wind the bars and see how I go.

My question now is, can I go the coils with out the shocks for the moment? One place didnt mention shocks, the other seemed to give me no option but to go with them a the same time. I guess going back later you pay double labour.

$130 seems a bit expensive. All they will be doing is putting the Paj up on a hoist and simply slotting in the springs and bolting in replacement shocks. This can be done at home using jack stands and a 2tonne+ high lift workshop jack.

One place offered to do the rear installation for just a few dollars since it wasn't a busy day for them. I guess if you bore them with thousands of questions, the cheaper it will become. Also helps to say that you are thinking of installing it yourself but you don't have the time.

$50 for torsion bar wind up is ok if it includes wheel/camber alignment.

You could drive without the new shocks, but it might be a bit too dangerous with cornering and mainly off road.

[angyork]

I'd be interested to see the outcome of this also. I went to one of the local 4x4 shops last week asking for options. The reply I got was "well your pretty well stuffed, cant do much at all with them, go talk to bobJane and see what they can do with tyers for you" What sort of sales person is that??

I get different opinions from from everyone I talk to, some say wind the bars, job done, others say wind the bars, then see if you need to replace them. Other say dont touch them....

Does anyone know of a nice 'how too' or 'walk though' just so I can get a better understanding of how the bars work and what winding them up actually does? I'm not scared to admit im not a mecahnic and have little understanding of how things work but would like to think im a logical thinking sort of person so would be able to work things out if I had somewhere to start.

(sorry bout the hijack)

The sales person that referred you to Bob Jane was full of crap. I'm with another club in Melbourne where I am the only Paj owner, every trip they are amazed what the Pajamas can do. People don't take the Paj that seriously unless they see it beating another -- more capable -- 4x4. The things is, they fork out so much money for, lets say a decked out Patrol, and they can't fit on most tracks in the Victorian high country. They get in a bog and since they are so heavy, it takes ages to get them out. Driver experience, light weight and good tyres are everything.

You can do a huge amount of things with a Paj. In the club scene, a LWB NJ Paj can do B grade trips -- A grade being almost un-walkable -- without dif locks and lift. All that is needed, is guts, snorkel and good tyres. The standard bash plates can take a great bashing.

[6G74]

I think your on a diff page angyork... it think the sales person was refering to the torsion bars... not teh pajero as a whole.

[PajeroEdge]

6G,

The impression I got from the sales person was that he was referring the to car in general....

oh well its his loss, that will be the last time I go there for advice...