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2002 3.2 DID Pajero - Smoking Issue

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  • #16
    Thanks
    one day when I find my old butterfly I might do the same.
    02 NM Pajero 3.2 DID Auto with Snorkel, Turbosmart Dual Stage Boost Controller, Kinugawa 15T Hybrid turbo with 56mm Billet compressor wheel and extended tips, 3” straight through turbo back exhaust, EGR Removal, ECU Piggyback Chip, Raw Nitro shockies, 22” Black Rhino wheels with Black Bear A/T tyres, EGT, boost and engine temp gauges, catch can, Synergy 4b Ronbox, K&N air filter, 320x300 Front mount intercooler with 3” polished inlet piping, 4 Bar MAP sensor @29psi many other mods

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    • #17
      You said "Dark Grey Oil", and also that you thought that maybe the rocker cover had been off before because it was incredibly clean. Maybe the dark grey is a Molybdemum DiSulphide additive?

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      • #18
        Interesting about the stalling issue. I have a blanking plate, no hole, on our second Pajero (came with it) but no holes in the butterfly you speak of, all vacuum hoses connected correctly and no check engine light. This is on a 2003 GLS auto.

        Cheers

        Bennie
        2005 NP DiD auto. The family bus. Dual batteries, snorkel, one side step, King Springs lift, Koni shocks, rear airman airbags, Provent catch can, 81L LRA tank (awesome!). Other rides: "Ruby Scoo" my lifted L series Subaru and my "Redback" Targa top Brumby - only mods are 5 poster bullbar and nicer dashboard from a coupe

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        • #19
          Hi all, thanks for your additional responses, some interesting ideas there that we will look into for sure.

          Hope you're all sitting comfortably because we're back again with further developments in this saga:

          A few weeks back now - we were coasting down the road, thoroughly chuffed with ourselves having avoided the dreaded fuel pump replacement, when suddenly we realise we're chugging out heaps of dark-grey smoke in an obnoxious cloud behind us. Slight panic, pull over where safe to do so. With some basic tools but no scan tool on board to aid us, we flip open the hood to find the intercooler to intake hose had loosened itself off (not completely off, but it had scooched up a fair bit away from the throttle body lip) we tighten it up and start the car again; still there's smoke, lots of it, increasingly on acceleration.

          We try pulling off the vacuum hoses to the butterfly again, the top hose (idle?) off made no difference but the bottom hose (engine kill?) did (it felt like there was an excessive amount of vacuum, but without having a clear idea of how much vacuum there should it was hard be sure) we leave it off and start the car again, a few smaller puffs of black smoke but then it runs like a dream. SO does a few laps around the block and it seems to be running "normally" again, however there is a CEL (presumably code 41 relating to the vacuum line being off).

          We notice we're below a quarter tank of fuel so go and fill it up and get home again without issue. The next time we could get the scan tool on it at the workshop we confirmed the following codes:

          41 THRT VAL SOL
          31 CAN COMM
          52 VGT CONT PRS
          51 EGR POS SENSOR

          (The three latter codes we've not been paying much mind to, being that they don't really seem to be causing any issues, and also we don't have a VG Turbo or EGR position sensor, presumably this is something to do with not having a MUTT tool to play with, but that's another matter)

          On reflection of the incident, we came up with the following theory; the vacuum solenoid may be faulty and caused the flap to close, the reason it did not stall was because of the holes we had conveniently drilled out of the butterfly flap, allowing enough air through to keep the car going but caused it to smoke (too much fuel/not enough air)

          We cable tied the end of the loose hose and drove like this for a couple of weeks or so without issue (other than the CEL and code 41 coming up intermittently) before the second incident occured;

          Happily coasting down the road yet again, CEL is on as expected (Code 41, we presumed) when suddenly the smoke is back. Engine felt like it was under heavy restriction when not on throttle though did not produce too much smoke, when on throttle revs would jump up violently to ~2000RPM and thick, black smoke would bellow out. It would idle incredibly rough. We were fairly sure we were in limp mode, with no tools and no scan tool we had to leave the vehicle where it was and come back the next day. The following morning we used the ol' wire-on the-pins trick and read all the usual codes from the flashing lights on the dash, in addition we also had the dreaded code 48.

          Feeling a bit defeated and coming to terms with the fact we may in fact be replacing the fuel pump, we enlisted the help of our colleague to come and tow us back to the workshop. (In the time before this we also drained the fuel filter to check the diesel for any obvious signs of contaminants and replaced with a new filter in case low fuel/contaminated fuel had anything to do with this as we had noticed we were again at a quarter tank. No difference, fuel looked fine)

          Finally back to the workshop and we scan the vehicle;

          26 CSP SENSOR
          48 GE
          31 CAN COMM
          52 VGT CONT PRS
          51 EGR POS SENSOR

          We erase the codes (all go apart from the latter 3) and the CEL goes out, and the Paj RUNS LIKE A DREAM. No rough idle, no smoke, no limp mode, no code 48. This incident occurred about two weekends ago and it has not happened since. We still get the occasional CEL and code 41 but it doesn't seem to affect the vehicles performance at all and she's been very well behaved.

          Since the incident we have done ample testing on the various plugs and connectors on the harness for the fuel pump (using other threads on this forum as guidance, thanks as always!) and the major components (GE Actuator etc.) seemed within range (I can post our results later on, if anyone is interested) That makes us more confident. At this point we're suspecting a major electrical/wiring issue as to why this intermittent issue is occurring, which is not ideal but seems more manageable than doing the darn pump.

          Again, following guidance from other threads on this forum, we ordered two new Speed Sensors and get to work on fitting them last weekend. The bottom/side speed sensor was way out of spec and appeared to be the original sensor. The top speed sensor appeared to have been replaced before (when tested it was within spec) and someone had previously done a pretty dodgy fix job on the plug (I'm talking exposed wires and glue everywhere) we patched up the wiring on the plug as best we could and put it back together.

          As of today, she seems to run a lot smoother and sounds a little bit better (might just be our imagination) but we've not encountered the dreaded black smoke or code 48 again yet. The current mission is trying to find a solution for the code 41 issue. Looking into options to turn it off in the code/with a remap - chasing a possible lead for this as we speak.

          Apologies for the monster essay, a lot has happened over the past few weeks. We enjoy reading all your insights and thoughts on our saga.

          Cheers!

          Last edited by bitbuni; 06-05-21, 06:59 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by bitbuni View Post
            Okay, hopefully this will be a final round up of this issue as we seem to have solved it... for now.

            My understanding of the scenario was - we blanked the EGR and thus when the engine was up to temperature and began to close the throttle butterfly to rely on the EGR gases it was choked out due to the blanking plate and so that is why we were stalling. We removed the butterfly but that gave us a warning light, as did driving with the vacuum line disconnected. The solution = drill two large holes in the butterfly and reinsert... viola! It doesn't stall and it doesn't throw a light or any code (with no flap it threw code 41)

            Obviously the done thing is to drill a hole into the EGR plate to allow some gases to pass through to avoid this issue however having just done the massive clean we decided against this (we'll just have to be super vigilant and carry something sharp or practice our speed-screwdriver skills to get a hose off incase it tries to run off on us anytime.)

            Fingers and toes crossed this is all for now... and there is now NO smoke, (expect a small black puff when your flooring it, which is to be expected from an old diesel engine like this)

            Thanks to all and good luck to anyone else on this journey... Cheers!


            I just recently upgraded to a 4 bar MAP sensor and no longer get a check engine light at idle with inlet butterfly removed.

            not sure why
            02 NM Pajero 3.2 DID Auto with Snorkel, Turbosmart Dual Stage Boost Controller, Kinugawa 15T Hybrid turbo with 56mm Billet compressor wheel and extended tips, 3” straight through turbo back exhaust, EGR Removal, ECU Piggyback Chip, Raw Nitro shockies, 22” Black Rhino wheels with Black Bear A/T tyres, EGT, boost and engine temp gauges, catch can, Synergy 4b Ronbox, K&N air filter, 320x300 Front mount intercooler with 3” polished inlet piping, 4 Bar MAP sensor @29psi many other mods

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            • #21
              Hi, I don't know too much about cars but you mentioned in your last post that both times you noticed that you were below a quarter tank of fuel? I'm not sure if this is correct but I've been told not to go below a quarter tank if it can be helped because the fuel pump is lubricated by the diesel and it helps keep it cool (someone on here would know if this is true) but perhaps this is exacerbating any issues that the fuel pump has once it gets below this level?

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              • #22
                Bad news, friends - on our usual commute to work this morning we stopped for coffee at the fuel station just near the workshop (25 mins drive there it was perfectly fine) and when we got back in the car and started it, it had thrown itself in limp mode again, dark grey smoke and rough running/idle, limp it around the corner in its 'all-or-nothing' way to the workshop and put the scan tool on it.

                26 CSP SENSOR
                48 GE
                31 CAN COMM
                52 VGT CONT PRS
                51 EGR POS SENSOR

                But, uh-oh, this time they won't clear. We left the vehicle for a few hours and just now tried again to clear the codes but they won't budge. So, this is the moment we may have to accept it IS the fuel pump after all. (We filled the tank with premium diesel at a local place just two days ago so, there's no low-fuel concern this time, though there's a vague possibility of contaminant in the fuel/tank I suppose)

                We'll have one last crack at testing all the harnesses (voltage tests as per the workshop manual) and check our resistance readings of the various sensors etc. again (as per the workshop manual, again) and fiddling with the plugs/wiring, maybe take another look at that bodge-job wiring to the top speed sensor again but at this point we're pretty deflated and are already looking at replacement pumps.

                Anyone got any recommendations for good pump rebuilders in WA? 🤣

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                • #23
                  I see in an earlier post you mentioned grey oil. It could have been normal dark diesel oil which is diluted with fuel. If the current oil level has increased then definitely overfuelling.

                  I only mention this to point out that it might confirm that the fuel/air ratio might be a matter of too much fuel in the mix not a shortage of air caused by butterfly valves etc. Hope this makes sense.

                  Unfortunately probably points to fuel pump. Sorry
                  2016 NX GLS Factory alloy bar, Provent 200 catch can, Boos bash plates (full set), Stedi light bar, 40 litre Waeco, Titan fridge slide, Kings springs, Dunlop ATG3s, Auto-mate, Ultragauge MX 1.4, Uniden 8080s, more to come...

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                  • #24
                    That bites mate. It really has me considering having the pumps on our NPs serviced to avoid a dead pump issue. Cheaper than a regular pump by a long shot but also not wanting to shell out for it right now. Catch 22.

                    I’ve heard once they go it’s too late for a service

                    Cheers

                    Bennie
                    2005 NP DiD auto. The family bus. Dual batteries, snorkel, one side step, King Springs lift, Koni shocks, rear airman airbags, Provent catch can, 81L LRA tank (awesome!). Other rides: "Ruby Scoo" my lifted L series Subaru and my "Redback" Targa top Brumby - only mods are 5 poster bullbar and nicer dashboard from a coupe

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                    • #25
                      Little update for you all; we bit the bullet and after around 4 hours toil (and the help of a more experienced colleague) the pump is off and has been sent for inspection/testing. Speaking to the local expert in Freo (have been told by the other diesel pump specialists in Perth that he is the only bloke surly enough to touch them these days) sounds like it could be an internal electrical issue. So fingers crossed.

                      Will keep y'all updated on what we find out; interestingly it looks like someone has had the pump off before as there were already marks on the scissor gear and also gasket maker in certain places, which to us looks like someone worked on it previously. Here's to hoping it's just the GE that needs replacing and nothing too mechanical. 🤞 Cheers!

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                      • #26
                        So, it's me, back again with another riveting Injection Pump saga update! ☺️

                        Pump is back, had a full service (some seals/o-rings here and there) and a new GE actuator, and passed the relevant testing.

                        We've fitted it, put everything back to where it goes and she starts a dream. Which is great! No fault codes, no smoking when running - the only issue (and we're thinking it's a pretty big one) is now when we try to turn her off the revs shoot up (runs on) and it does now peter out and shut off but to begin with it really sounded like it was going to run away on us and would only stop when suffocated with a bit of cardboard to the throttle body.

                        Any advice? Something we're missing or doing wrong?
                        ​​​​​​
                        ​​​​​Thanks as always!

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                        • #27
                          Glad to hear your pump wasn’t a paper weight! What was the wallet damage for that service if you don’t mind me asking (we have two DiD NPs in our driveway, so it’s playing on my mind)?

                          Dunno about the run on issue. Have you contacted the service provider to see what they suggest?

                          Cheers

                          Bennie
                          2005 NP DiD auto. The family bus. Dual batteries, snorkel, one side step, King Springs lift, Koni shocks, rear airman airbags, Provent catch can, 81L LRA tank (awesome!). Other rides: "Ruby Scoo" my lifted L series Subaru and my "Redback" Targa top Brumby - only mods are 5 poster bullbar and nicer dashboard from a coupe

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