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  • Hmm, Prado may actually be better off road

    As much as it pains me to say this, I was very impressed with my mates new D4D Prado yesterday and based on the short but quite steep track we did last night, it might actually be better off road than the Paj.

    He has a GX (no traction control or diff locks) and has put Cooper ST's on it. The track was very loose and dry and pretty steep. The Prado pretty much walked up and I was spinning tyres all over the place (still got up though). Do tyres make that much difference?

    Downhill was even worse. The engine braking on the Prado is bloody brilliant. I actually had to check that I wasn't in 3rd gear in mine as I was feathering the brakes all the way down. The Paj leaves a lot to be desired in this area.

    I think I might be in he market for some new tyres very soon.
    2010 150 Prado GXL V6 Auto

    Accessories fitted: BFG At 275/65/R17, Rhino Platform Rack, Toyota Cargo Barrier.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Hookedon4wding View Post

    Do tyres make that much difference?
    Yes. Tyres make all the difference, particularly if you are comparing STs to Bridgestone HTs or Dunlop Grandcraps offroad. Go get some decent tyres and do the comparo again.
    Drowned, RIP: NS DID VRX Auto, FP, TJM Sorkel, Cargo Barrier, Infill G4 car PC, Waeco CF-50, Icom IC 400 UHF, ARB deluxe bar, IPF 900XS HID upgrade and dual battery. Kings and Bilsteins, Brown Davis Bash plates, CSA 17 inch alloys with Cooper ST-Cs for the dirt, ORS fridgepack drawers, 90 litre water bladder, LRA aux fuel tank.

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    • #3
      Yep, what he said! Tyres are the easiest way to make the biggest difference offroad.

      But, I have been with a D4D Prado on my last 2 trips offroad and they are definately as good if not better than the Paj on offroad tracks. But the Pajero is so much more refined onroad.
      thanks,

      Adam

      2010 Prado ZR 150 SWB
      1987 Range Rover Ute

      You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. - Homer Simpson

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      • #4
        I go 4x4 alot with a mate who has a disco series 1 and the first time we went there was this hill near buller and with road tyres Bridgestone HT he just slipped and wheel spun everywhere in fact even watching was scary, the next time we went he had 33 mongrels (retreat) which from my understanding is a similar pattern to a simex, he got up the hill with only a bit of wheelspin and mate it look easy. Even with my NS I have stored away the HT and run a set of BF Goodies AT and I can feel the difference on dirt and mud. Just my thoughts. Cheers Pajman
        SOLd NS GLX, 3.2 DID, MANUAL, ARB BAR, IPF SPOTLIGHTS X 4, REAR STORAGE SHEVLES, DVD, SAT NAV, OME 2 inch lift, Dual Battery and roof racks
        wishing :

        Now driving

        Mazda BT50, bullbar, spotlights, light bar and need so spend more.......

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Hookedon4wding View Post
          As much as it pains me to say this, I was very impressed with my mates new D4D Prado yesterday and based on the short but quite steep track we did last night, it might actually be better off road than the Paj.

          He has a GX (no traction control or diff locks) and has put Cooper ST's on it. The track was very loose and dry and pretty steep. The Prado pretty much walked up and I was spinning tyres all over the place (still got up though). Do tyres make that much difference?

          Downhill was even worse. The engine braking on the Prado is bloody brilliant. I actually had to check that I wasn't in 3rd gear in mine as I was feathering the brakes all the way down. The Paj leaves a lot to be desired in this area.

          I think I might be in he market for some new tyres very soon.
          Based on my observed experience during driver training and many club trips I think you will be pleased to know that the Paj is a great all rounder. It's all about setting up your vehicle for the type of terrain that you intend to use it for.

          Tyres and tyre pressure are absolutely crucial for safe four wheel driving.
          I have 3 four wheel drives and at one stage my garage looked like a tyre shop. Think of tyres like shoes for your 4wd. To me, using road tyres to go offroading is like using your office shoes to go bushwalking. Driving with high tyre pressures is like wearing high heels on sand dunes or mud.

          If you have an auto gear box then by learning to use the 'left foot braking' technique when descending steep hills; then engine braking will no longer be a concern.

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          • #6
            wonder how the Prado goes in the Dakar Rallie. i know the Pajero goes quite well.
            NS 3.2 Diesel, Polor White , Black CSA Rims, HanKook Dynapro AT Tyres, 3 inch custom stainless steel exhaust with free flow Cat & Muffler, 50mm Lift, Old Man Emu Shocks and Springs, TJM Bullbar powder coated White, Custom 7mm Sump Guard & Transmission Guard, 8 inch LED Spotties plus 20 inch LED Light Bar, rear Reverse LED Light, ARB Roof Cage , Tiger11 Awning.

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            • #7
              By the way the other issues with road tyres when going on bush tracks are:
              - Road tyres are not designed and constructed for offroad use. They have thin side walls and shallow treads. Both are design characterics to dissipate heat effectively on high traction surfaces. But these characteristics are not for bush tracks. Thin carcass construction are proned to damage on rocks and easilly punctured. Road tyre tread patterns do not have clearing properties, whereas all terrain and mud tyres are designed to clear mud from the treads.
              - To get good traction with road tyres will require lower tyre pressures. Then with newer models on 17 or 18 inch rims, means that there are more chances of rim damage.
              - The only other situation where road tyres are best is in sand, but then again all terrain tyres or mud terrain tyres are not disadvantaged as long as they are at the correct tyre pressure.
              - Road tyres offer much less traction on bush tracks. This means greater likelihood of wheel spin, then causing more damage to tracks and causing greater stress on your vehicle's drivetrain which is why you'll probably experience auto gearbox overheating. Less traction means that you'll need more momentum to drive over obstacles, which will also cause more bounce and potential damage to the underbody of your vehicle. Less traction also means that you are likely to require more recovery than other vehicles and this being inherently dangerous means that you are more likely to place people (you and around you) at risk.

              I hope this message is clear enough. If your going to be more adventurous with offroad driving, then set your vehicle to suit. It's better for the environment so that we can all return to the tracks again and again. It's better for your vehicle and much safer for all people involved in your trip. You can start setting your vehicle properly by changing your tyres.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by OnPatrol View Post
                By the way the other issues with road tyres when going on bush tracks are:
                - Road tyres are not designed and constructed for offroad use. They have thin side walls and shallow treads. Both are design characterics to dissipate heat effectively on high traction surfaces. But these characteristics are not for bush tracks. Thin carcass construction are proned to damage on rocks and easilly punctured. Road tyre tread patterns do not have clearing properties, whereas all terrain and mud tyres are designed to clear mud from the treads.
                - To get good traction with road tyres will require lower tyre pressures. Then with newer models on 17 or 18 inch rims, means that there are more chances of rim damage.
                - The only other situation where road tyres are best is in sand, but then again all terrain tyres or mud terrain tyres are not disadvantaged as long as they are at the correct tyre pressure.
                - Road tyres offer much less traction on bush tracks. This means greater likelihood of wheel spin, then causing more damage to tracks and causing greater stress on your vehicle's drivetrain which is why you'll probably experience auto gearbox overheating. Less traction means that you'll need more momentum to drive over obstacles, which will also cause more bounce and potential damage to the underbody of your vehicle. Less traction also means that you are likely to require more recovery than other vehicles and this being inherently dangerous means that you are more likely to place people (you and around you) at risk.

                I hope this message is clear enough. If your going to be more adventurous with offroad driving, then set your vehicle to suit. It's better for the environment so that we can all return to the tracks again and again. It's better for your vehicle and much safer for all people involved in your trip. You can start setting your vehicle properly by changing your tyres.
                For those who don't know....On Patrol (Alberto) is one of our senior Driving Instructors so he knows what he is talking about. Also trained me on my Profiency Plus (poor bugger).

                Agree the Prado is a better unit offroad but heard of a couple of diffs letting go and one with us doing a trip to Haunted Stream holed the radiator bottom somehow. So not much chop if they can't get back on the road.
                Dave
                NX Pampas Cat GLS MY16
                Member 1228 Pajero Club

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                • #9
                  Tyres do make a massive difference offroad. Both my brother & myself have NJ Pajero's, my brother has Coopers A/T & I have Hankook A/T, We go offroad together quite a bit.
                  He seems to get up very steep muddy, loose gravel hills a little easier then me, accept when very rough uneven terrain, as i have more hight clearance, in that case he bottoms out a little more. But on the road mine is much smoother & handles much better. The Coopers A/T are a much more aggressive tread over the Hankook A/T
                  All in all, evey driver is different & every vehicle is different & the driver in their own person driving skills, & the way they know their own vehicle.
                  A person with the best tyres, the best 4x4 vehicle & no experience, will still have troubles againest a person that has a lesser performing vehicle with lots of experience & knowing their vehicle well.
                  Last edited by knakkers; 16-02-08, 08:10 PM.
                  NJ LWB GLS with sunroof, 3.0, Dual fuel, custom built alloy bullbar, Hayman Reese tow bar, tinted windows

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                  • #10
                    Tyre pressures can also make a reasonable difference
                    --
                    Marquis
                    SOLD - NT MY10 DiD, ARB D/Bar, Airtec, LRA 81L, Bil/Lov 2", BCDC1220+AGM, P3

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by OnPatrol View Post
                      By the way the other issues with road tyres when going on bush tracks are:
                      - Road tyres are not designed and constructed for offroad use. They have thin side walls and shallow treads. Both are design characterics to dissipate heat effectively on high traction surfaces. But these characteristics are not for bush tracks. Thin carcass construction are proned to damage on rocks and easilly punctured. Road tyre tread patterns do not have clearing properties, whereas all terrain and mud tyres are designed to clear mud from the treads.
                      - To get good traction with road tyres will require lower tyre pressures. Then with newer models on 17 or 18 inch rims, means that there are more chances of rim damage.
                      - The only other situation where road tyres are best is in sand, but then again all terrain tyres or mud terrain tyres are not disadvantaged as long as they are at the correct tyre pressure.
                      - Road tyres offer much less traction on bush tracks. This means greater likelihood of wheel spin, then causing more damage to tracks and causing greater stress on your vehicle's drivetrain which is why you'll probably experience auto gearbox overheating. Less traction means that you'll need more momentum to drive over obstacles, which will also cause more bounce and potential damage to the underbody of your vehicle. Less traction also means that you are likely to require more recovery than other vehicles and this being inherently dangerous means that you are more likely to place people (you and around you) at risk.

                      I hope this message is clear enough. If your going to be more adventurous with offroad driving, then set your vehicle to suit. It's better for the environment so that we can all return to the tracks again and again. It's better for your vehicle and much safer for all people involved in your trip. You can start setting your vehicle properly by changing your tyres.
                      Very good advice, thank you. At this stage it just comes down to $$$. Unfortunately I just don't have the $1500 required to get a set of all terrains as we're renovating our house at present.

                      To make matters worse, I discovered a chunk missing from the sidewall of one of my OE tyres yesterday morning which is obviously testament to the weakness of the HT design.

                      Going down to the tyre place this morning to get some advice.

                      Thanks for all the advice. I'll start putting some money in the piggy bank!
                      2010 150 Prado GXL V6 Auto

                      Accessories fitted: BFG At 275/65/R17, Rhino Platform Rack, Toyota Cargo Barrier.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mate, any reason someone would fit a diff lock before decent tyres?
                        98 NL LWB with plenty on the wish list

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CRH View Post
                          Mate, any reason someone would fit a diff lock before decent tyres?
                          Personally I don't think that makes sense, but people do funny things sometimes. It only makes sense if you tick the diff lock option at the dealership when you ordered the car.

                          Good tyres = crucial.....Diff Lock = nice to have....Good tyres + Diff Lock = priceless.

                          By the way, if you have good tyres it will complement your traction control. With good tyres your traction control will not activate as much and it will prolong use up a hill. Wrong tyres for the job means traction control will be over active and it will give up earlier.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by OnPatrol View Post
                            Personally I don't think that makes sense, but people do funny things sometimes. It only makes sense if you tick the diff lock option at the dealership when you ordered the car.

                            Good tyres = crucial.....Diff Lock = nice to have....Good tyres + Diff Lock = priceless.

                            By the way, if you have good tyres it will complement your traction control. With good tyres your traction control will not activate as much and it will prolong use up a hill. Wrong tyres for the job means traction control will be over active and it will give up earlier.
                            I agree entirely, I ticked the box and love it!. I?ve been 4 wheel driving for years and I?ve never had a diff lock in any of my previous 4x4?s. Having one is great. But having said that, I would choose decent tyres every time before a diff lock. Having both will be a real treat.
                            SWB NS-R (Subsidised) V6-Petrol, G/Metal Grey, Rear locker.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CRH View Post
                              Mate, any reason someone would fit a diff lock before decent tyres?
                              The car I purchased was already in the yard (not ordered for me) and had the diff lock already installed when I bought it. I certainly wouldn't have purchased an after market one before tyres.

                              Cheers, Sam.
                              2010 150 Prado GXL V6 Auto

                              Accessories fitted: BFG At 275/65/R17, Rhino Platform Rack, Toyota Cargo Barrier.

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