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NS Diesel Particulate Filter

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  • NS Diesel Particulate Filter

    As a new member and a new owner of a NS VRX Auto Diesel Pajero I was interested in some posts on the diesel particulate filter on your old forum and thought I would provide you with some feedback on my experience.

    At 1200km my filter lamp came on (solid, not flashing), not knowing what it was I checked the manual. When I turned the motor back on the lamp was off. Called the dealer who said not to be concerned unless it comes back on and stays on.

    End of May I made a trip over to Melbourne from Adelaide with no issues, however 2 weeks later the filter lamp was flashing and the warning lamp was on as well, this at 4313km. When switching the motor off it kept running for a few seconds before shutting down with a shudder. Down to the dealer who hooked it up to the computer to perform a ?burn off? and also to ?re-learn? the Paj?s computer. Was then told if it happened again I would need to take it for a 30minute run without stopping to complete a burn off (unbelievable, told him that I just came back from a Melb trip and could not understand why the filter would congest within a 2 week period) or I could bring it back to them to complete the burn off but it would cost me (shocked).

    Not happy with that, I made some phone calls to other dealers, the general theme was as follows. The issue could be caused by a couple of things:
    1) Dirty Diesel fuel, apparently our Aussie diesel is dirtier than the European diesel.
    2) Dirty Oil, was advised to complete the 7500km service early to change the oil and oil filter as this may help, and quoted $270.00 for this.

    One dealer advised this issue seemed to be in vehicles under 10000km, also said that when they performed a ?burn off? and also ?re-learned? the on board computer, these vehicles did not return and it seemed to fix the issue. The same dealer had an instance of this happening in a Paj that had done 300km.
    Other feedback from dealers was that this is an issue for MM, however they cannot pinpoint the cause.
    Not sure it helps much, but thought I would post.

  • #2
    From the Wikipedia page on Diesel Particulate Filters:
    Regeneration is the process of removing the accumulated soot from the filter. This is done either passively (by adding a catalyst to the filter) or actively. On-board active filter management can use a variety of strategies:

    * 1) Engine management to increase exhaust temperature
    * 2) A fuel burner to increase the exhaust temperature
    * 3) A catalytic oxidizer to increase the exhaust temperature, with after injection (HC-Doser)
    * 4) Resistive heating coils to increase the exhaust temperature
    * 5) Microwave energy to increase the particulate temperature

    All on-board active systems use extra fuel, whether through burning to heat the DPF, or providing extra power to the DPF's electrical system. Typically a computer monitors one or more sensors that measure back pressure and/or temperature, and based on pre-programmed set points the computer makes decisions on when to activate the regeneration cycle. The additional fuel can be supplied by a metering pump. Running the cycle too often while keeping the back pressure in the exhaust system low will use extra fuel. The reverse runs risk of engine damage and/or uncontrolled regeneration and possible DPF failure. Quality regeneration software is a necessity for longevity of the active DPF system.

    Diesel particulate matter combusts when temperatures above 600 degrees celsius are attained. The start of combustion causes a further increase in temperature. In some cases the combustion of the particulate matter can raise temperatures above the structural integrity threshold of the filter material, which can cause catastrophic failure of the substrate. Various strategies have been developed to limit this possibility. Note that unlike a spark-ignited engine, which typically has less than 0.5% oxygen in the exhaust gas stream before the emission control device(s), many diesel engines run above 15% oxygen pre-filter. While the amount of available oxygen makes fast regeneration of a filter possible, it also contributes to runaway regeneration problems.
    2012 NW Platinum DiD, 2" Lift, Bar & Winch, Driving Lights, Dual Battery, Snorkel.

    Soon to be Ex- 2002 NM Exceed 3.2DiD, Lifted, PSI Powerbox, Bullbar, HID Driving Lights.

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    • #3
      Bit of a shame you cannot dump the PF for a Cat Conv
      --
      Marquis
      SOLD - NT MY10 DiD, ARB D/Bar, Airtec, LRA 81L, Bil/Lov 2", BCDC1220+AGM, P3

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      • #4
        Thanks for that pjchris.
        It might explain the higher fuel usage of the NS auto compared to the NP auto and why I will be buying the manual again
        Last edited by Sandgroper; 04-07-07, 12:42 PM.
        NS VRX DiD manual, family pack, tint, 2.5t tow, Smartbar, Firestone airbags, Vision X HID driving lights.

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        • #5
          Definitely fuel related. Once every fuel supplier adopts 10ppm sulfur diesel the problems are more than likely to disappear.

          Use BP Diesel and you'll have no problems - they are producing Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel now with 10ppm sulfur.

          http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarti...tentId=7027516
          NS GLX DID Auto, MM alloy bar, Kings Springs 35mm Lift, Polyairs, Cooper ATR Tyres 265/70/17, Spider chip.

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          • #6
            Wilco - i am interested in this question of diesel quality. i thought that in any state the diesel comes always from only one or two possible sources. In Brisbane it's Caltex or Shell - and varies in other states. Further when you get fuel from country areas on the bigger states (Qld & WA for instance) it may well all come from the same refinery.
            Is there any fuel company insider on the forum who can explain the system to us?

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            • #7
              Silverfox , This has happened twice to me as well,(at 4,000 & 6,500km`s)exactly the same way as you described.The dealer gave us the same explaination as well both times.I was told it would happen again if we do lots of short trips (which it does) I think they have been told by MMC to stall the customer until a proper fix is found for the DPF due to our lower quality fuel.
              2007 NS VRX PAJERO Di-D , AUTO , FAMILY PACK , HD TOW PACK

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              • #8
                Also,I asked my Dad (who has 20 years experience in mitsu dealerships as a service manger)if this was common for MMC to stall customers until fixes were found for new car problems - and yes it is as it is with all manufacturers. So kick up a stink if it happening to you as they have to fix it.
                2007 NS VRX PAJERO Di-D , AUTO , FAMILY PACK , HD TOW PACK

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                • #9
                  Wallyburger, I had a phone call yesterday by a 3rd party, instigated by the dealer apparently (I think it's MMC) to ask if I was satisfied with the service provided on my last visit to the dealer (which was related to the DPF issue). Told the person not happy with explanations provided nor was I happy about what I was told I had to do.
                  Today I had a phone call from the service manager as a follow up from the phone call yesterday. Told him in no uncertain terms this is a MMC product issue,and MMC need to fix it
                  Also told him if it happens again I will bring the Paj back and MMC can pay for the 'BurnOff' process, if MMC have an issue with that they will be talking to me directly. Service Manager told me they have MMC technical people visit every two weeks and he would be happy to arrange a meeting, if required.
                  The message is keep up the fight and don't give in!!!

                  In an earlier post Wilmo suggested we use BP 10ppm diesel, I followed this up with BP as this is not available in the Adelaide metro area as yet (or NSW), couldn't tell me when it would be

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                  • #10
                    HI silverfox , It seems to be a common problem although i have never been asked to pay for the DPF re-generation procedure(burn-off).They have done it both times under warranty with no mention of me paying for anything.The DPF performs it`s self-clean(burn-off) at aruond 600deg celcius so many short trips will cause a build up of particulate and bring on the lights.It would seem that if our fuel were of better quality this would not happen anywhere near as much as well.I`m going to try the BP for the next few times (probably get better fuel economy as well) , i`ve always suspected the the woollies fuel that we have been using was inferior as it is heavily discounted in price.
                    2007 NS VRX PAJERO Di-D , AUTO , FAMILY PACK , HD TOW PACK

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                    • #11
                      I have used BP from day one. Now done 6500Km and just had the oil dumped and filter changed this morning.

                      Have not seen the problem with the DPF.

                      Dumped oil because going to tow next week.

                      Cheers
                      Mitsubishi Pajero Platinum LWB Diesel 2012 towing AVAN Caravan the Liam 18ft adventure pack with ALKO AKS3004 coupling.

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                      • #12
                        Hey JandG, What state are you in, I presume you are in a state where BP diesel 10ppm is available?
                        What about your driving habit, do you do short trips or a bit of a mixture?

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                        • #13
                          i use bp in nsw and the dpf light came on and my minimum trip is around 65km of freeway
                          SWB NT X DiD its R E D

                          SWB NS X DiD that's double D's !! Retired

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                          • #14
                            I am in NSW around Sydney.
                            Never do short trips. Have done long trips of say 100-400Km.
                            To and from work is 50Km each way.
                            Always fill up at the same BP in North Richmond which is not on the list of 10PPM. Looks like I am using 50PPM and it be only a matter of time before the DPF light will come on I guess.
                            But so far, haven't seen it.

                            Tell me, when the DPF light does come on does it stay on or does it reset after engine stop/restart.

                            I don't baby my car either, normal cruising most of the time but she gets a bit of stick regularly. Maybe that helps.
                            Don't know enough about them really.
                            Cheers
                            Mitsubishi Pajero Platinum LWB Diesel 2012 towing AVAN Caravan the Liam 18ft adventure pack with ALKO AKS3004 coupling.

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                            • #15
                              a restart does not clear it, after about 10 to 22 minutes it will go out as the "burn off" will be in progress.. it is a very HOT smell near the rear , kinda cool process
                              SWB NT X DiD its R E D

                              SWB NS X DiD that's double D's !! Retired

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