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  • Spring upgrade for lift

    Purchased an 09 NT that came with OME suspension. Vehicle has no increase in lift as I have compared it to stock measurements on here. Not sure why that it is, maybe age, and the fact that OME setup doesn't offer much lift to begin with.

    So my question is, without upgrading everything to say a Bilstein/Lovell setup, can I simply swap out the springs for the Lovells to achieve a 2 inch lift? Or is the shock/spring relationship important? I'm assuming the OME shocks are of good quality and would like to save some $.

    I should mention the ride as is seems very hard, although I have nothing to compare it to. It doesn't bother me that much as I'm trying to set up the car for remote touring but a comfier ride would be nice.
    2009 NT GLS Manual DiD, Cool Silver Metallic, OEM alloy nudge bar, Falken Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R17 116T, Old Man Emu suspension, BushSkinz alloy intercooler & sump bash plates, BushSkinz steel side steps/sliders, ARB alloy mesh rack, work in progress...

  • #2
    Old Man Emu struts and shocker ride hard, especially if the tyre inflation is over 34psi.

    Factory ride heights are 503/505mm front and 533/535mm rear so what do you have?

    How do you know that the coils are OME and not factory, both are painted black?

    The Gen 4 IFS and IRS are very sensitive to both coil selection and strut/shocker selection and it is easy to get it wrong! King have a greater range of coils to select from and the rear coils are variable rate so they cope with both empty and full touring weights whilst maintaining a level of comfort.

    OJ.
    2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
    MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

    Comment


    • #3
      500/505mm front and 520/525mm rear. They could be factory coils for all I know.

      Good to know they are regarded as riding hard. With my Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R17 116T tyres, I have keep them down around 30psi, mind you the car is usually unloaded.

      Sorry, my understanding of mechanics is minimal. Where does the lift come from mostly? Shocks or coils? If I can't achieve any extra lift with some alternative coils then I might just change everything out and have a more comfortable ride.
      2009 NT GLS Manual DiD, Cool Silver Metallic, OEM alloy nudge bar, Falken Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R17 116T, Old Man Emu suspension, BushSkinz alloy intercooler & sump bash plates, BushSkinz steel side steps/sliders, ARB alloy mesh rack, work in progress...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by willneill View Post
        500/505mm front and 520/525mm rear. They could be factory coils for all I know.

        Good to know they are regarded as riding hard. With my Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R17 116T tyres, I have keep them down around 30psi, mind you the car is usually unloaded.

        Sorry, my understanding of mechanics is minimal. Where does the lift come from mostly? Shocks or coils? If I can't achieve any extra lift with some alternative coils then I might just change everything out and have a more comfortable ride.
        The change in ride height (lift) comes from the free length and spring rate of the coils. The ride comfort comes from the coil spring rates, valving in the struts, shockers and often overlooked, the tyre pressures.
        Load carrying ability comes from coil spring rates.
        So you can see that spring rates effect ride height, comfort and and load carrying ability so it is important to get the correct spring rate that suits most applications.

        The factory coils are undersized and typically sag so I doubt that factory coils would still be at the new ride heights 10 years since new unless the vehicle has very minimal kms and never been loaded up.

        The front suspension is relatively easy to get right once you have added all extra weight like bullbars, winch, aux battery and underbody guards. the problems start when you have high towball down loads and do not use a WDH when towing as high towball loads remove weight off the front axle and increase your front ride height.

        The rear suspension is more difficult to find the sweet spot as you can have up to 500kg of extra weight in the rear of the vehicle and up to 250kg of towball download and you want to be able to compensate for this load variation with only a 30mm to 40mm ride height change. This translates to a change in rear coil compressed length of only 15mm to 20mm. In some circumstance there may not be a coil that will do everything you want so the coils may need to be supplemented with airbags.

        Struts and shockers, Bilstein also ride hard, not as hard as OME though. If you are on a tight budget then Monroe TDT, step up ijn price and KYB 4x4 Skorched or Oztec are good recreational suspension components. Foe extra heavy duty outback/touring work at high loads the Koni or Dobinson IMS are better suited but the price also increases.

        Parts will cost between $1000 and $1800, coils only make up about $350 to $400 of this cost, labour will cost between $500 and $600 however if the suspension alignment bolts are seized in the suspension bushes, this is common on Gen 3/4 Pajeros that are more than 3 years old, then this can add up to another $1000 if all the alignment adjusters need to be replaced.

        Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this is the reality of the situation.

        OJ.
        2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
        MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

        Comment


        • #5
          A lot of detail there, much appreciated.

          Well, I won't be towing, not my thing. I'm still on the fence re bullbar, but likely to add aux battery and maybe a few other extras with only one other passenger. Living out of the vehicle with enough food, water and gear does add up though.

          So probably looking for a medium duty spring but I'm planning on loading up and going to a weigh bridge as soon as restrictions ease here in Melbourne. I can at least take that number with me when the time comes to get something fitted.

          Something to consider is centre of gravity as I rely on a roof rack to carry surfboards, gas bottle and a cargo box with misc camp gear, all up including the weight of the rack around 65-70kg. I wonder if that plus a lift will have things teetering on the edge of roll issues.

          I'm happy to put 2k aside for the job but the added 1k for alignment scares me a bit. Fingers crossed all good when the time comes. Guest 4x4 in Melbourne have been servicing my car so I might get them to look at putting in some King springs if there are some that will work with the OME. It's hard to go past all the positive reviews of the Bilstein/Lovell combo which can come with medium duty springs.
          2009 NT GLS Manual DiD, Cool Silver Metallic, OEM alloy nudge bar, Falken Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R17 116T, Old Man Emu suspension, BushSkinz alloy intercooler & sump bash plates, BushSkinz steel side steps/sliders, ARB alloy mesh rack, work in progress...

          Comment


          • #6
            Weighing your front and rear axle loads is critical in the selection of the best coils for each application.
            Lovells/Bilstein combination has been the default go to suspension on this forum over the years but it really is not the bee knees. Bilstein B6 are a great on road strut and shocker but they have a short warranty of 12 months or 20,000kms and there are many people that have had Bistein failures, normally it is those that travel heavy and off the bitumen.The Bilstein tend to be firm on compression and soft on rebound and you need the opposite for outback off road touring. Lovells have a limited range of coils, Kings have almost double the number of different coils so you have a greater chance of getting the correct coil for your application.

            I would not waste money on reusing the OME struts and shockers with new coils.

            Unless the suspension reseller/fitter can give you your finished ride heights, both unloaded and loaded then they are just guessing or going from the coil manufacturers catalogue. Will they give you a guarantee that if you are not happy they will change the coils over free of charge?

            OJ.
            2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
            MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

            Comment


            • #7
              I was fence sitting myself about Bullbar, don't want the weight, don't want the cost.

              BUT then just now ute at work, hit two Roo's in 3 weeks & local, after 2nd roo she required tilt tray, old ute so probably a ride off actually unless muck about at wreckers

              I hit a roo many years ago & the bar that old Landcrusier vehicle had was as heavy as the car, bent the pipe work.
              You could recover the vehicle with the welded hook on this bar as example of the bar.


              I have therefore concluded, the once in ten years the bar might actually have something hit it, might just be that one time i'm a long way from no where & would prefer a bent bar rather than a stuffed intercooler, tranny cooler or radiator, which the bar may just possibly save from fatal damage, possibly
              Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16

              Comment


              • #8
                Had some thoughts on my upcoming suspension upgrade. Relying on a roof rack and carrying between 60-80 kgs (including rack) up top for longer trips, I realise I'm quite top heavy. Is this something to consider when fitting suspension ie. too soft and I will have body roll issues? And if so, what suspension to avoid and what to go for?

                Vehicle weights to come, I'm still heavily considering Billstein and Lovell kit as it falls within my price bracket. Although considered a good 'on-road' suspension, I wonder if I should be looking at something more suited to off-road to counter the top heaviness. Thoughts?
                2009 NT GLS Manual DiD, Cool Silver Metallic, OEM alloy nudge bar, Falken Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R17 116T, Old Man Emu suspension, BushSkinz alloy intercooler & sump bash plates, BushSkinz steel side steps/sliders, ARB alloy mesh rack, work in progress...

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would suggest King/OzTec or King/KYB Skorched combination, because King has a wider range of coils to choose from, the rear coils are progressive so they are better suited for variable rear axle loads. OzTec struts and shockers have a longer warranty and better suited to a recreational 4wd that leaves the bitumen than Bilsteins from my experience.

                  Warranty; Bilstein 1year/20,000kms, KYB 3 years/60,000km, OzTec Lifetime!

                  http://www.oztecsuspension.com.au/wa...0of%20warranty.

                  OJ.

                  Additional Info, Monroe TDT Warranty 3 years/60,000kms.
                  Last edited by old Jack; 01-09-20, 11:43 AM. Reason: Additional info added
                  2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                  MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Will
                    I have the Lovells/Bilstein combo because thats what everyone on the forum was recommending a couple of years ago, but i have found them to be very harsh over bumps. Even a speed hump on the road sends a harsh jolt through the car. And then when we've been driving on say a beach with undulations the car gets a continuous bounce up and feels like we're in a trampoline. The shock rebound isnt strong enough to calm this down. Old Jack has clarified and put into words what i have been experiencing - the Bilsteins tend to be firm on compression and soft on rebound and you need the opposite for outback off road touring. I support what OJ says and recommend you look at one of his other suggestions.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi guys. Yep I've been stuck on the Billies and Lovells option as it's common and have found a Pajero owning mechanic with that setup who seems reliable, a contact of Kieren from Bushskinz and has promised to 'look after to me on price'. However it's obvious there are better options out there, it will just take a bit more work to get it right.

                      I got a rough quote for Koni shocks and Lovell springs yesterday, it was something like 3.5k fitted. A very reputable shop here in Melbourne who specialise in prepping for outback travel, they said they have found the Lovell springs to work better in Pajeros over Kings, although the bloke who could share more info wasn't in.

                      Either way that's a hell of a lot of $. If I could get the Koni's and King springs fitted for under 3k I would maybe consider it. It gives me the peice of mind that If I to head to the outback I'm well equipped.

                      The reality is though, I'm doing a lot of on road and softer off road driving. So comfort on these roads is important and there are other mods I need to budget in. Not rushing into this, need to get it right.
                      2009 NT GLS Manual DiD, Cool Silver Metallic, OEM alloy nudge bar, Falken Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R17 116T, Old Man Emu suspension, BushSkinz alloy intercooler & sump bash plates, BushSkinz steel side steps/sliders, ARB alloy mesh rack, work in progress...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Have narrowed my search down to either OzTec/Kings or Ultimate. Bilstein/lovell, Ultimate and OzTec/Kings have all been quoted at around $1800-1900 fitted, +/- alignment, all by seperate shops. I have not spoken to a supplier of KYB.

                        Speaking with OzTec's Vic supplier (CanDo4x4), they actually think it's likely I have stock coils with my OME shocks. They even went as far to suggest I could keep the shocks if theres nothing wrong with them and replace the springs. It would depend on the condition of the struts. Following your advice OJ I think better to not mess around with this option, I could always just sell the OME shocks.

                        I'm happy to go with Kings springs however I read that Lovells, although firmer have an option for greater lift? CanDo4x4 argued this and said with Kings I can match the length and rate of any Lovells spring giving me the same EBH... To be clear I would choose clearance and load handling first, comfort a close second.
                        Last edited by willneill; 04-09-20, 06:37 PM.
                        2009 NT GLS Manual DiD, Cool Silver Metallic, OEM alloy nudge bar, Falken Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R17 116T, Old Man Emu suspension, BushSkinz alloy intercooler & sump bash plates, BushSkinz steel side steps/sliders, ARB alloy mesh rack, work in progress...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Kings have the largest range of coils to suit the Gen3/4 Pajero.
                          All you need to do is know your fixed axle weights and your loaded axle weight.
                          Most suspension places have limit experience with IRS so they either just guess or go by the spring manufacturers book.
                          King rear coils are also progressive rate unlike Lovells and many other brands.
                          The spring rate of progressive rate coils gets higher as the spring compresses so you get a softer more comfort ride when unloaded but load carrying ability as the coil compresses.

                          OJ.
                          2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                          MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have finally got to a weighbridge and have some numbers that should help determine springs.

                            Unfortunately I made a bit of a mess of it and went to two different bridges... long story. None the less this should help.

                            Both were done with a full tank of fuel and myself (75kg) in the car.

                            Car as daily:
                            Combined: 2.5t
                            Front: 1.2t
                            Rear: 1.3t

                            Car fully packed:
                            Combined: 2.66t
                            Front: 1.26t
                            Rear: 1.40t

                            I would need to take into consideration the weight of 1 passenger.

                            FYI second and third row seats have been removed. I’m planning on fitting a light bar to the nudge bar and somewhere down the track a small 30L drawer fridge with lithium battery and maybe rear bumper guard. Other than that she’s pretty well done. Im
                            not doing any hardcore off roading, really just set up as as an all rounder/tourer.

                            I’m still thinking OzTec/Kings as per your recommendation OJ.

                            I’d love a 2 inch lift but I also don’t want a harsh ride as that’s what I already have. I realise this is a compromise.

                            Id really appreciate some guidance.

                            Cheers
                            2009 NT GLS Manual DiD, Cool Silver Metallic, OEM alloy nudge bar, Falken Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R17 116T, Old Man Emu suspension, BushSkinz alloy intercooler & sump bash plates, BushSkinz steel side steps/sliders, ARB alloy mesh rack, work in progress...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Kings might only get you 35mm to 40mm up above std, which is high enough for me.
                              I know on rear you can use poly insulators for extra 10mmish
                              Not so sure how you lift front 50mm standard weights prings
                              I'm not familair with set ups though sorry, so i'll leave that bit for someone who knows better than me

                              http://www.polytuff.com.au/
                              Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16

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