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  • #31
    Hi Jason,

    The 2" / 50mm lift is a marketing tool.

    The legal requirement is you must retain at least 2/3's of the original droop travel, this is also good suspension engineering that was practiced well before the regulations came about. The suspension needs to have the ability to articulate over undulating ground, so if you raise the suspension too high and the coil spring rates are too high for the loads carried then you can end up making your Pajero less capable off road. On road you can also stuff up the handling, steering and braking if you have insufficient suspension droop travel.

    From my notes going back several years ago 535mm EBH front and 565mm EBH rear was the max height on a NW Pajero.
    All coils settle after some use, so going above the max legal height by up to 10mm allows for roughly a 5mm settling of the coils.

    You can easily check this yourself.

    Front, with a trolley jack under the front crossmember jack until both front wheels are clear off the ground and measure the distance from the centre of the wheel hub to the underside of the wheel arch in a vertical line, check both sides they should be the same droop EBH. Now take the factory EBH of 503mm away from your droop EBH, divide this number by 3 and add that number on to the factory EBH and this gives you the max legal unladen ride height.
    For example- Droop EBH 623mm minus Factory Spec unladen EBH 503mm = 120mm Droop travel, divide 120mm by 3 and this results in 40mm of allowable lift over the factory unladen specification of 503mm EBH, so EBH 543mm is the target height.

    Repeat the same process for the rear suspension, do the calculations and see what lifted rear EBH you get.

    OJ.
    2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
    MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

    Comment


    • #32
      Hi OJ. Thanks for the info, I hadn't considered.

      Based on my weighbridge numbers and your notes on the subject, are you able to suggest a Kings spring combination? Assuming they will be used with OzTec shocks.

      I guess the goal is to go close to the max heights whilst retaining comfort.
      2009 NT GLS Manual DiD, Cool Silver Metallic, OEM alloy nudge bar, Falken Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R17 116T, Old Man Emu suspension, BushSkinz alloy intercooler & sump bash plates, BushSkinz steel side steps/sliders, ARB alloy mesh rack, work in progress...

      Comment


      • #33
        The combination fitted to my nx was marketed as a "40 mm lift". As I was after some extra ground clearance but was most interested in a comfortable ride, I decided this was enough lift for me.

        No doubt there are springs that will give you a full 50 mm but as OJ points out droop must legally be maintained and the effects on capability and handling can defeat the purpose of changing the suspension. We have all seen vehicles lifted so high you can park a small car under them I wonder how they feel going around a sweeping highway bend, fully loaded at 100 kmh??
        2016 NX GLS Factory alloy bar, Provent catch can, Boos bash plates, Stedi light bar, 40 litre Waeco, fridge slide, kings springs, Dunlop ATG3s, more to come...

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by willneill View Post
          Hi OJ. Thanks for the info, I hadn't considered.

          Based on my weighbridge numbers and your notes on the subject, are you able to suggest a Kings spring combination? Assuming they will be used with OzTec shocks.

          I guess the goal is to go close to the max heights whilst retaining comfort.
          Hi Willneill,

          Choice of struts will only affect the front ride height if the lower coil seats on the struts are adjustable or in a different position to the factory coils seats. On the Rear, shockers have no influence on the ride height. OzTec is a good choice for a recreational 4wd where you are looking for comfort and performance on poor quality roads. Struts and shockers control the coil movements by dampening the rate of compression and extension (rebound) of the suspension. For great handling on road struts and shockers tend to be valved firm on compression and soft on rebound, however in you are travelling on poor roads you want the the opposite were the struts and shockers are soft on compression and firm on rebound. There is such a thing of struts and shockers being too soft. I recently drove a forum members Challenger with Tough Dog Comfort suspension, the ride heights were good but the spring rates felt too low and the rebound rates of the struts and shockers way too soft. The end result was a vehicle that pitched and wallowed, not only did this make the vehicle fell unstable but also the passengers unwell. I only drove it on average bitumen roads at speed of up to 80kph but I suspect it would have been a real handful on rough roads at speed.

          In regards to coil selection I am confused about what you are trying to achieve particularly with the rear suspension. In your first post you wanted to set up for remote touring but later on when you posted your axle weights you were at 1300kg as a daily and 1400kg fully loaded. I do not know of anyone that can go remote touring with only 100kg of extra weight. Even the people that are fully setup for remote touring and have unloaded rear axle weights of 1500kg still add 250kg to 300kg when they are fully loaded. Normally a KCRR-35EHD is used in this situation and sometimes supplemented with airbags so they can have a fully load rear EBH of 530mm to 545mm.

          The "H" and "HC" give you the ride height increase but not the load carrying capacity for remote touring, where as the "HD" and "EHD" will give you the weight carrying ability without a great change in ride height, but at the expense of comfort if you are lightly loaded.

          If you want the the best of both worlds so you have comfortable lifted ride heights and load carrying ability then taller coils with lower spring rates combined with airbags maybe the only solution for the rear suspension. Airbags will cost you between $300 and $500 a pair and they can have reliability issues with leaky hoses, valves and even (rarely) punctured airbags.

          The other things to consider is you have a 10 year old NT, so it has 150,000kms to 250,000kms on the odometer. This age and mileage will most likely mean you will have 1 or more seized suspension adjuster, worn lower rear coil insulators that you need to factor into the cost of the suspension upgrade.

          A few owners of older high km Gen 4's have also reported different sounds and vibration after a significant suspension lift, this is normally caused by the drive joints running in a new position.

          I am not trying to dodge your questions, all I can do is share my experiences both good and bad, and make you aware that there will need to be some compromises made by yourself in choosing a suspension setup.

          OJ.
          2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
          MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by old Jack View Post

            The "H" and "HC" give you the ride height increase but not the load carrying capacity for remote touring, where as the "HD" and "EHD" will give you the weight carrying ability without a great change in ride height, but at the expense of comfort if you are lightly loaded.

            OJ.
            A perfect summary OJ

            No spring can do both. Folks have so much (too much?) choice that this simple fact gets a bit lost.

            I chose comfort over load carrying capacity. Others will choose what suits their needs.

            2016 NX GLS Factory alloy bar, Provent catch can, Boos bash plates, Stedi light bar, 40 litre Waeco, fridge slide, kings springs, Dunlop ATG3s, more to come...

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by old Jack View Post
              Hi Jason,

              The 2" / 50mm lift is a marketing tool.

              The legal requirement is you must retain at least 2/3's of the original droop travel, this is also good suspension engineering that was practiced well before the regulations came about. The suspension needs to have the ability to articulate over undulating ground, so if you raise the suspension too high and the coil spring rates are too high for the loads carried then you can end up making your Pajero less capable off road. On road you can also stuff up the handling, steering and braking if you have insufficient suspension droop travel.

              From my notes going back several years ago 535mm EBH front and 565mm EBH rear was the max height on a NW Pajero.
              All coils settle after some use, so going above the max legal height by up to 10mm allows for roughly a 5mm settling of the coils.

              You can easily check this yourself.

              Front, with a trolley jack under the front crossmember jack until both front wheels are clear off the ground and measure the distance from the centre of the wheel hub to the underside of the wheel arch in a vertical line, check both sides they should be the same droop EBH. Now take the factory EBH of 503mm away from your droop EBH, divide this number by 3 and add that number on to the factory EBH and this gives you the max legal unladen ride height.
              For example- Droop EBH 623mm minus Factory Spec unladen EBH 503mm = 120mm Droop travel, divide 120mm by 3 and this results in 40mm of allowable lift over the factory unladen specification of 503mm EBH, so EBH 543mm is the target height.

              Repeat the same process for the rear suspension, do the calculations and see what lifted rear EBH you get.

              OJ.
              Thanks OJ for the wealth of knowledge you share, i appreciate it.
              The above is info i would never be able to work out if you didn't show me.

              I had actually formed the opinion same "marketing", but it's not a complete lie. It is fair to say many people would see 50mmish lift as their current suspension is shagged like mine
              It's not actually shagged, it's just come back to earth some what

              As PaulMcG pointed out have a good think about it, "lifted heights" & for me an actual 2" lfit would result in having to carry a step ladder .
              Legalities aside, I know people use strut spacer's & you can ADD to the rear lift & each to their own i guess, but i fail to see how that improves the vehicle, stability comes to mind + a step ladder required.

              High enough for me would be New Springs, Max Frt 540 & rear 570. Which is more like 37mmish lift or 1.5 inches above a new vehicle.
              These heights would also be same rake as standard suspension design

              I'm not sure i will hit that target like a bullseye .

              I like analogies
              Take a step back in time, my grandfather as example had more than one horse drawn cart for a reason

              The Dray rode rough but was the load carrying vehicle & to this day i use the term "Rides like a Tip Dray", i've owned a few Landcruiser utes upgraded springs definately road like tip drays.

              https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...mageBasicHover

              https://cobb.qm.qld.gov.au/Events+an...drays/Tip+Dray

              Then there was the Sulky, i drove these quite a bit when i was a lad, (hobby as i'm only 47), far more comfortable than my Landcruiser utes.

              https://www.nma.gov.au/explore/colle...lky-collection

              Of course what i'm trying to achieve ( Airbags) is a cross between the Dray & the Sulky .

              Other option is to drive the Tip dray for the Odd trip that i will do with my 4 weeks a year holidays.
              Last edited by Jasonmc73; 4 days ago.
              Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by old Jack View Post

                In regards to coil selection I am confused about what you are trying to achieve particularly with the rear suspension. In your first post you wanted to set up for remote touring but later on when you posted your axle weights you were at 1300kg as a daily and 1400kg fully loaded. I do not know of anyone that can go remote touring with only 100kg of extra weight. Even the people that are fully setup for remote touring and have unloaded rear axle weights of 1500kg still add 250kg to 300kg when they are fully loaded. Normally a KCRR-35EHD is used in this situation and sometimes supplemented with airbags so they can have a fully load rear EBH of 530mm to 545mm.
                Hi OJ. Yes this has been part of the process of assessing my needs and being more realistic with where I'm going. You could call this compromise. I had turned down the idea of long range fuel tank, bullbar, large fridge etc. and have opted for a much lighter setup using mostly multi purpose hiking gear, that is still capable of taking me most places just perhaps not those very remote areas of WA for example. Perhaps I could have planned a little more for the future when I was getting weights but likely would have only added maybe 60-100kg at max. I should also mention that my 'daily' is still pretty setup as I go away most weekends hence the minor difference.

                Who knows where I'll end up in a few years time, maybe I'll want a different setup but I have settled on this approach for now.

                Theres not much I can do about the age of vehicle other than remain optimistic as it has very low km's as well as having the OME kit put in it at some point. Just hoping for the best but thanks for the heads up.

                Comparing weights to Two Emms I feel like the same combo of KCRR-35HC and KCFR-34H might be a good option.
                Last edited by willneill; 4 days ago.
                2009 NT GLS Manual DiD, Cool Silver Metallic, OEM alloy nudge bar, Falken Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R17 116T, Old Man Emu suspension, BushSkinz alloy intercooler & sump bash plates, BushSkinz steel side steps/sliders, ARB alloy mesh rack, work in progress...

                Comment


                • #38
                  Just a side issue. If you end up having to replace suspension bushes, it seems generally accepted that poly bushes will give a harsher ride, than rubber, but last longer.

                  There's plenty of people here who know a lot more than me about this. Might be worth a bit of research in advance in case the the bushes need replacement.
                  2016 NX GLS Factory alloy bar, Provent catch can, Boos bash plates, Stedi light bar, 40 litre Waeco, fridge slide, kings springs, Dunlop ATG3s, more to come...

                  Comment

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