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  • NW suspension differences

    Hi all, I know this topic has been covered a million times, there is also another live one at the moment but trawling through many previous threads I can't find much specific more related to my questions...

    I would like some advice on suspension differences as this is my first 4x4 and I don't have any reference point apart from just the stock suspension. Currently the cars suspension feels a little rough and 'crashy' when going over small bumps - is this supposed to be normal for a NW Pajero? I only have my previous non 4x4 cars for reference and their suspensions were much smoother and absorbed bumps well without giving the 'crashy' feeling. All I currently have at the moment is a Front Runner rack (34kg), Roof tent (55kg) and Sound deadening (40kg). I thought this much weight would actually smoothen out the drive but apparently hardly. I've messed around running different tire pressures (stock 265/60/18 on Bridgestone HT's) - from 25psi upto 42 psi, I have found 36/38psi gives the best balance currently between not impacting too much of the fuel economy (much smoother ride) and also not making the ride too harsh (much better in fuel economy).

    Down the line I will be adding more stuff to the car like 270 awning, dual batt setup, bash plates, air compressor, fridge/freezer and storage system in the boot. At this point I know the rear will start to sag quite a bit and ground clearance isn't all that great compared to other 4x4's from stock. One thing I wont be doing is towning - so no requirement for that.

    Here in the UK, I can only seem to find OME nitrocharger kit and Koni shocks with Kings springs. Everything else outside of the UK will be mega expensive.

    So, the questions I have...

    1) If I was to upgrade to the OME suspension (medium), what differences in ride quality will I feel compared to the stock suspension? (same again with Koni/Kings compared to stock)

    2) Comparing OME to Koni/Kings suspensions (medium or HD), what would the differences be in ride quality?

    I know you guys have been through many different suspension setups and have a wealth of knowledge on these.

    My aim is to build a comfortable overlanding rig that will be great for 60% on road and 40% offroad - but offroad meaning light to medium offroading, nothing serious like what 4WD24/7 do. I'd like to go up a size to 265/65/18 on tires.

    Any advice would be appreciated!

    Thanks!
    Nik


  • #2
    Originally posted by Niks View Post

    So, the questions I have...

    1) If I was to upgrade to the OME suspension (medium), what differences in ride quality will I feel compared to the stock suspension? (same again with Koni/Kings compared to stock)

    2) Comparing OME to Koni/Kings suspensions (medium or HD), what would the differences be in ride quality?

    I know you guys have been through many different suspension setups and have a wealth of knowledge on these.

    My aim is to build a comfortable overlanding rig that will be great for 60% on road and 40% offroad - but offroad meaning light to medium offroading, nothing serious like what 4WD24/7 do. I'd like to go up a size to 265/65/18 on tires.

    Any advice would be appreciated!

    Thanks!
    Nik
    Ride quality is affected by tyre construction (I understand that higher load rating = harsher ride (?)), tyre pressure, suspension bushes (OEM are soft, aftermarket can be harsher), spring rates, and damping rates.

    If you are going for a heavier spring rate (to carry heavier loads), then you will have a harsher ride than standard (everything else being equal).If they have a similar rate to the standard spring, they will have similar ride quality. Each of those brands has a variety of options, and most are probably comparable - so the brand is not really the issue - it's the spring and damping rates, and whether the springs are progressive or linear (on the rear). Some brands sell softer 'comfort' springs, but they are not suitable for carrying heavy loads.

    The ever-helpful OJ will probably provide some advice on how the OME mediums compare to standard and advice of what spring rates/models might suit your circumstances!

    Other difference between the shock brands include durability, ability to resist fading under hard usage, adjustability, and whether they can be relatively cheaply rebuilt (like the Koni) or have to be replaced.

    EDIT: After Redbruce's below correction of my over-simplistic statement - Yes, shock type (eg. gas-charged vs simple oil bath), valving, oil viscosity, etc varies between brands and provide different ride qualities. I have found it difficult to understand these differences as I haven't seem a metric that makes them comparable or that is specified across brands. Forums do provide a few seat-of-the-pants opinions. To me the criteria became durability (which often is correlated with simplicity), whole-of-life value (durability (km + servicability) per lifetime costs), and adjustability (to compensate for lack of comparable metric).
    Last edited by insect_eater; 1 week ago.
    NX GLX manual, T13, XD9000, Koni RAID, Ultragauge, ISI carrier, pioneer platform, Lithium auxillary

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by insect_eater View Post

      The difference between the shock brands is probably more about durability, ability to resist fading under hard usage, adjustability, and whether they can be relatively cheaply rebuilt (like the Koni) or have to be replaced.
      There are significant ride quality differences between shocks.
      OME are widely reported as harder riding. Bilstein, Pedders, EFS are also in the firm compression soft rebound school.
      Koni, Dobinsons, OzTec are examples of the softer compression and firmer rebound school.

      Benefit of Koni is you can adjust rebound to suit application and wear. Does come at a $$ cost premium though.
      MY15 NX Exceed, Auto Mate PRO, Paddle shift, Vlads TC mod, Redarc BCDC + Lithium, MM tow hitch, Teshonka brake controller, Provent catch can, GME 3350 UHF, Boo's bash set, Falken Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R18, TPMS, Dobinson/Kings HD 45mm lift, Rhino bars, Drifta 270 awning, spare tyre lift, Ultraguage MX 1.4, MM nudgebar with Ultravision 205 4K lightbar, auxiliary PWR 23 row transmission cooler and radiator bypass, KAON barrier and shelf, XTM kitchen and drawer. Stockman allroada pod trailer with Drifta Stockton RTT.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Niks View Post
        Hi all, I know this topic has been covered a million times, there is also another live one at the moment but trawling through many previous threads I can't find much specific more related to my questions...

        I would like some advice on suspension differences as this is my first 4x4 and I don't have any reference point apart from just the stock suspension. Currently the cars suspension feels a little rough and 'crashy' when going over small bumps - is this supposed to be normal for a NW Pajero? I only have my previous non 4x4 cars for reference and their suspensions were much smoother and absorbed bumps well without giving the 'crashy' feeling. All I currently have at the moment is a Front Runner rack (34kg), Roof tent (55kg) and Sound deadening (40kg). I thought this much weight would actually smoothen out the drive but apparently hardly. I've messed around running different tire pressures (stock 265/60/18 on Bridgestone HT's) - from 25psi upto 42 psi, I have found 36/38psi gives the best balance currently between not impacting too much of the fuel economy (much smoother ride) and also not making the ride too harsh (much better in fuel economy).

        Down the line I will be adding more stuff to the car like 270 awning, dual batt setup, bash plates, air compressor, fridge/freezer and storage system in the boot. At this point I know the rear will start to sag quite a bit and ground clearance isn't all that great compared to other 4x4's from stock. One thing I wont be doing is towning - so no requirement for that.

        Here in the UK, I can only seem to find OME nitrocharger kit and Koni shocks with Kings springs. Everything else outside of the UK will be mega expensive.

        So, the questions I have...

        1) If I was to upgrade to the OME suspension (medium), what differences in ride quality will I feel compared to the stock suspension? (same again with Koni/Kings compared to stock)

        2) Comparing OME to Koni/Kings suspensions (medium or HD), what would the differences be in ride quality?

        I know you guys have been through many different suspension setups and have a wealth of knowledge on these.

        My aim is to build a comfortable overlanding rig that will be great for 60% on road and 40% offroad - but offroad meaning light to medium offroading, nothing serious like what 4WD24/7 do. I'd like to go up a size to 265/65/18 on tires.

        Any advice would be appreciated!

        Thanks!
        Nik
        Hi Nik,

        Since you are in the UK your Shogun may have the lower ride height option that was sold in some European markets there for any off the shelf suspension parts will increase the ride height considerably. In Australia the unladen factory ride heights for a Gen 4 NT/NW/NX are 503mm front and 533mm rear, this is measured when the vehicle is parked on flat level ground and from the centre of the wheel hub to the underside of the wheel arch in a vertical line. If you have any height restrictions like carports, garages, car parks then you need to consider these may limit vehicle overall height increases.

        I am of the opinion that Gen 4's are under sprung, this is because even without any fitted accessories the factory suspension sags, the struts and shockers are nothing special and these fail regularly within the warranty period mainly because they are undersized and overworked by trying to control the low spring rate coils. The only reason a Gen 4 corners reasonably is the massive sway bars particularly on the front suspension.

        ARB/OME coils are made in Australia by King so the quality is very good, it just gets down to selecting the correct coil for the application.
        ARB/OME Nitro Charger struts and shockers are made in Australia by Tenneco, who also make Monroe struts and shockers, no issues with quality. However the ARB/OME have different valving so they ride firmer than the Monroe range. In Australia you are generally paying about 50% more for the ARB/OME kit than a King/Monroe kit but ARB do subsidise the fitting cost a bit and provide Nationwide Warranty and Support, which is important to some people.

        Koni struts and shockers have a great reputation with those that travel heavy and over very rough terrain for very long periods, the cost of a pair of struts and a pair of shockers is about the same as many good quality complete coils, strut and shocker kits! I ran Koni on my previous 4wd and they were great, unfortunately they are not available for the Challenger/Pajero Sport.
        I ran Bilstein/Lovells combination for about 90,000kms but had 3x front strut failures and the rear shockers struggled to control the EHDVR coils at max axle loads in desert and dune country, but it handled like a rally car on and off the bitumen. For the last 63,000km I have been using Dobinson front coils, reused the Lovells custom EHDVR rear coils and Dobinson MT struts and shockers, the MT are the earlier version of the IMS. Ride comfort is greatly improved but with this has been an increase in body roll so the vehicle no longer handles like a rally car, but is way more comfortable and much better off road. Unfortunately both rear MT shockers are now leaking and need replacing so I am disappointed I did not get 100,000kms out of them, front struts are still fine.

        My preference is to use components from the manufacturers where possible and not rebranded products that can be overpriced for the quality, because if the price is competitive then the quality is normally lower.

        If your only UK option is ARB/OME, then it will be an improvement over the factory suspension setup, it will carry loads better and handle better but it will be firmer, less plush.
        If the price difference is tolerable then I would choose Koni/Kings over ARB/OME.
        But it will never be the same ride quality as an upmarket Euro sedan but will be better than a small cheap hatchback, after all it is a 2500kg+ of metal with a high centre of gravity.

        Coil selection is the next challenge, best if you can post your front and rear axle weights measured on a weighbridge, front and rear ride heights, and what extra loads you need to carry and where they are located within the vehicle. With this info then several coil options can be suggested, it is doubtful that there will be a perfect coil for both unladen and laden situations so it becomes a compromise.


        OJ.
        2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
        MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

        Comment


        • #5
          Note that Aussie's hesitancy about Konis is often driven by price as they are expensive in Aus. Here a single RAID 88-5389 rear shock is AU $650, in the UK they are AU $350, probably less if you cross the channel and have them fitted in the EU. Mind you, give me Ohlins any day, - if only .....
          Last edited by insect_eater; 1 week ago.
          NX GLX manual, T13, XD9000, Koni RAID, Ultragauge, ISI carrier, pioneer platform, Lithium auxillary

          Comment


          • #6
            Just be mindful if lifted Koni catalogue which i can't find advised not enough stroke on 82's, i found this convo but can't be sure as can't find catalogue!

            https://www.pajeroforum.com.au/forum...19#post1077519

            http://www.beadelltours.com.au/shock_absorbers.html
            Last edited by Jasonmc73; 1 week ago.
            Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16 GLS with Sand Grabba floor mats, Ultragauge, Automate & Paddle gear shifters with Vlads traction control mod, Nautia switch panel, ARB compressor, Redarc Tow Pro, Anderson plug, Bushskinz front & rear alloy plates, Kaon light duty cargo barrier & rear door table

            Comment


            • #7
              Here is a relevant thread & lengths in regards to our height suspension in Australia.

              https://www.pajeroforum.com.au/forum...326#post570326
              Mitsubishi Pajero NX MY16 GLS with Sand Grabba floor mats, Ultragauge, Automate & Paddle gear shifters with Vlads traction control mod, Nautia switch panel, ARB compressor, Redarc Tow Pro, Anderson plug, Bushskinz front & rear alloy plates, Kaon light duty cargo barrier & rear door table

              Comment


              • #8
                Wow thats some great advice! This is why I love asking questions because then I can learn new things! I had no idea that the UK Shoguns came with less ride height compared to other parts of the world. Why do we always get the crap end of the stick? As for the height of the car, with the Frontrunner rack and the roof top tent, I can't drive into underground car parks, height restricted car parks, dump yards or drive thru's. The barriers are all limited to 2.2m max and the total height of the car is just a wee bit more. Doesn't bother me now as I don't go to those places anymore.

                So I found an old thread of mine (when I was asking about A/T tires) and found the old measurements when I had nothing installed on the car:

                Front Right - Drivers Side = 47cm
                Front Left - Passengers Side = 47cm
                Rear Right - Drivers Side = 48.5cm
                Rear Left - Passengers Side = 48.5cm

                Now with the Roof rack, roof tent and sound deadening and audio system:

                Front Right - Drivers Side = 47cm
                Front Left - Passengers Side = 47cm
                Rear Right - Drivers Side = 48cm
                Rear Left - Passengers Side = 48cm

                Not sure how the front has stayed the same but the rear has dropped 5mm.

                This is what is available here for the Koni/Kings setup:

                Front - Koni Raid Shock Absorber - 90-5443 - 50mm max lift - RAID
                Rear - Koni Raid Shock Absorber - 88-5389 - 50mm max lift - RAID

                Front - Kings Coil Spring - KCFR-34HD - 50mm max lift - Medium Load (50-100KG)
                Front - Kings Coil Spring - KCFR-34EHD - 30mm lift - Extra Heavy Duty Load

                Rear - Kings Coil Spring - KCRS-35 - 50mm max lift - Medium Load
                Rear - Kings Coil Spring - KCRR-35HD - 50mm max lift - Heavy Duty Load (100-300KG)
                Rear - Kings Coil Spring - No part number - 50mm max lift - Progressive Extra Heay Duty Load (300-500KG)

                Unfortunately I dont know anywhere where there is a weighing bridge/station around me so I am unable to get the weight of my car.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I noticed that you have 80kg on the roof at the moment. This is the limit for the Pajero. A 270 degree awning is around 22-25kg......Might be pushing your luck with adding the awning. Definitely would not do it if you have kept the original plastic bars as the base of your rack and tent.
                  Dicko. FNQ

                  2014 NW with all the usual stuff plus more.
                  Some days your the dog...other days your the tree!!

                  Telegraph X camper

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Nik,

                    See below in "blue" font.
                    Where are you getting your info from? Link to Website?
                    Do they only supply the options you listed or can they supply other part number King coils?
                    I have added in a couple of other King Part Numbers, this is not the complete list.
                    How many kms on your Shogun?
                    Do they put salt on the roads in the UK like they do in some European countries?

                    OJ.

                    Originally posted by Niks;n1113613

                    This is what is available here for the Koni/Kings setup:

                    Front - Koni Raid Shock Absorber - 90-5443 - 50mm max lift - RAID
                    Rear - Koni Raid Shock Absorber - 88-5389 - 50mm max lift - RAID

                    [COLOR=#2980b9
                    Front - Kings Coil Spring - KCFR-34H- 40mm max lift [/COLOR]
                    Front - Kings Coil Spring - KCFR-34HD - 50mm max lift - Medium Load (50-100KG)
                    Front - Kings Coil Spring - KCFR-34EHD - 30mm lift - Extra Heavy Duty Load

                    Rear - Kings Coil Spring - KCRS-35 - 10mm max lift - Progressive Rate replacement for factory coils, higher spring rate Medium Load
                    Rear - Kings Coil Spring - KCRR-35 - 40mm max lift - Progressive Rate Medium Load.
                    Rear - Kings Coil Spring - KCRR-35HD - 50mm max lift - Heavy Duty Load (100-300KG)
                    Rear - Kings Coil Spring - KCRR-35EHD - 50mm max lift - Progressive Extra Heavy Duty Load (300-500KG)

                    Unfortunately I don't know anywhere where there is a weighing bridge/station around me so I am unable to get the weight of my car
                    https://www.gov.uk/find-weighbridge.
                    2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                    MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      With Kings HD front and rear, Boos steel plates front and rear, towbar, nudge, front aux battery and my recovery gear in rear my EBH are 535 fr and 545 rear on my NX. Mates NX ran same figues on rear but 545 on front with HHD as he has a steel bullbar and is fitting a winch. Both of our cars had sagged OEM suspension (as they all do - 500 front and 495 rear on mine).
                      MY15 NX Exceed, Auto Mate PRO, Paddle shift, Vlads TC mod, Redarc BCDC + Lithium, MM tow hitch, Teshonka brake controller, Provent catch can, GME 3350 UHF, Boo's bash set, Falken Wildpeak AT3W 265/65R18, TPMS, Dobinson/Kings HD 45mm lift, Rhino bars, Drifta 270 awning, spare tyre lift, Ultraguage MX 1.4, MM nudgebar with Ultravision 205 4K lightbar, auxiliary PWR 23 row transmission cooler and radiator bypass, KAON barrier and shelf, XTM kitchen and drawer. Stockman allroada pod trailer with Drifta Stockton RTT.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dicko1 - I have the full Frontrunner Slimline II rack, I had to remove the plastic rails to fit the Frontrunner base rails.

                        Old Jack - The company is called Euro4x4parts http://www.euro4x4parts.com/en and I grabbed some information from their website and also the Koni and Kings website. I found it a little confusing to be honest.

                        The car has done 92,000 miles. They can order more parts but it will be a 4 month waiting time for the Kings / OME stuff and 2 weeks for the Koni stuff. Yes, when the temps are predicted to fall below 0C, they start salt gritting the roads - its pretty bad when it starts to rain and it mixes as it then sticks to the car and hard to get off.
                        Last edited by Niks; 1 week ago.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Niks View Post
                          Dicko1 - I have the full Frontrunner Slimline II rack, I had to remove the plastic rails to fit the Frontrunner base rails.

                          Old Jack - The company is called Euro4x4parts http://www.euro4x4parts.com/en and I grabbed some information from their website and also the Koni and Kings website. I found it a little confusing to be honest.

                          The car has done 92,000 miles. They can order more parts but it will be a 4 month waiting time for the Kings / OME stuff and 2 weeks for the Koni stuff. Yes, when the temps are predicted to fall below 0C, they start salt gritting the roads - its pretty bad when it starts to rain and it mixes as it then sticks to the car and hard to get off.
                          Hi Nik,

                          The prices for the King coils are reasonable considering they have to travel 17,000kms to the UK, 4 month wait is a bit rough!.
                          Prices for the Koni's are much cheaper than we pay in Australia, freight and greedy percentage margins by everyone in the supply chain drive prices up.

                          At 92,000 miles (147,000kms) I would expect the lower rear coil insulators to be worn out, you can run without these but the suspension is noisier, genuine or after market rubber insulators are available online but these tend to have a short life. PolyTuff urethane last longer but these still are a consumable/maintenance item especially when carrying heavy loads and running HD/EHD rear coils.

                          Biggest potential issue you face is seized suspension wheel alignment bolts, these bolts seize in the steel sleeves of the rubber suspension bushes. If you are lucky and start soaking all of these adjusters, on a weekly basis with a good quality penetrating spray over the next few months, the bolts may come out and can be cleaned up, and reused with the application of anti-seize.
                          If the adjusting bolts are seized then they need to be cut either side of the suspension arm to remove the arms, then the bushes pressed out of the arms and new bushes pressed in, so this is not a quick, easy or cheap task!
                          The wheel alignment suspension adjuster do need to be functioning correctly as you will need to do a 4 wheel wheel alignment after changing the suspension. Rear adjusters tend to seize more regularly than front adjusters. Incorrect wheel alignment accelerates tyre, wheel bearing and suspension component wear and also it can drastically affect vehicle handling especially if the rear alignment is out!

                          You can check if the adjusters are seized, wait until you have soaked them for several weeks at least, then mark the current alignment position on the cams, and with the weight off the vehicle suspension and wheels, loosen the bolts off several turns and fit an extra nut on the expose thread of the bolt, then give the extra nut a hit with a hammer, it the bolt moves easily and the cam can be adjusted the full range of angular movement then the bolts and bushes will not require replacement. Realign the cams back to the marked settings and torque the bolts back up to the specified torque. If they are seized then you will need to order the correct new bushes and bolts so they are ready for the suspension change.

                          OJ.
                          2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                          MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think I will go with the Koni/Kings setup over the OME as it seems the safer option, I have read a good few posts of OME shocks failing. What I need help with is selecting the right kit for my use, do I stick to Medium, go to HD or EHD? Medium up front and HD on rear or HD up front and EHD on rear or HD front and rear?

                            What the car has already:

                            Frontrunner Slimeline II rack (with the FR base rails - Mitsu plastic ones have been removed) - 34kg
                            Roof top tent - 55kg
                            Stedi ST4k 42' light bar - 5kg

                            What I will be adding to the roof:

                            100W solar panel - 6.4kg
                            270 self supporting batwing awning - 33kg
                            or
                            270 unsupported awning - 15 to 18kg

                            Will I be putting too much on the roof or can the car take it?

                            So what I will be fitting soon to the car is:

                            Dual batt setup (100Ah Lithium - 12kg) with a 100W solar panel on the front of the roof rack (it weighs 6.4kg)
                            Moderate boot built - Possibly around 50kg? (modular build so can be removed when I wont be using the car for big trips)
                            2 x 10L water carriers (ridgemonkey) - one for clean water and one for grey water
                            35L Fridge - 14.8kg
                            Camping gear/dual stove/table - maybe around 20kg worth?

                            In regards to the suspension wheel alignment bolts, I will be honest and admit that mechanical work is really not my strongest point and I wouldnt even know where to start. Probably the best thing I could do is take the car to my local mechanic and have him check the bolts to see if they are seized or not.

                            If all goes well and I go ahead with the suspension lift - I will be changing the tires to 265/65/18. The car will still be used as a daily for a while until I buy an small electric car through my work scheme.

                            I have noticed not many people talk about the Ironman4x4 suspension kits, is there a reason for this?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Nik,

                              Comment in blue font in your post below.

                              OJ.


                              Originally posted by Niks View Post
                              I think I will go with the Koni/Kings setup over the OME as it seems the safer option, I have read a good few posts of OME shocks failing. What I need help with is selecting the right kit for my use, do I stick to Medium, go to HD or EHD? Medium up front and HD on rear or HD up front and EHD on rear or HD front and rear?
                              Your weights are creeping up especially if you are going to add a front bar, winch, aux battery and underbody guards.
                              Weight added directly over or between the front and rear axles is distributed proportionally according to the location of the weight, for example; an Aux battery is 30kg and it is located directly over the front axle, 150kg of front seat occupants is roughly halfway between the front and rear axles so the 150kg is proportioned about 75kg front axle and 75kg rear axle, 100kg in the 2nd row seat is just forward of the rear axle so this weight is proportioned about 95kg rear axle and 5kg front axle.

                              Where weight distribution start to get interesting is when it is forward of the front axle and rearwards of the rear axle, because it not only applies the weight to the closest axle but also, due to leverage, transfers weight off the other axle, for example a 80kg winch and bullbar combination will apply 80kg of weight + transfer 26kg off the rear axle and onto the front axle, so that is 106kg of extra weight on the front axle. Weight in the rear cargo area of the can transfer up to 32% of weight off the front axle depending on the location of the weight. So a 100kg storage system with fridge, with the load centred in the middle of the rear cargo area transfers 16kg off the front axle and on to the rear so the extra rear axle load is 116kg.
                              Therefore it is easy to see how the 1330kg front axle and 1780kg rear axle limits are exceeded when fully loaded and this is when you have no towball loads to consider.


                              What the car has already:

                              Frontrunner Slimeline II rack (with the FR base rails - Mitsu plastic ones have been removed) - 34kg
                              Roof top tent - 55kg
                              Stedi ST4k 42' light bar - 5kg

                              What I will be adding to the roof:

                              100W solar panel - 6.4kg
                              270 self supporting batwing awning - 33kg
                              or
                              270 unsupported awning - 15 to 18kg

                              Will I be putting too much on the roof or can the car take it?
                              That is 115 to 133kg which is above the roof weight limit for the Mitsubishi rails, but since these have been replaced with a Frontrunner system, what is the weight limit recommended? Most roof racks fail at the roof attachment points, either the roof structure or the brackets, is it a bolted/foot/rail or a riveted/bolts bonded track attachment?

                              Globetrotting forum member Crusin06 carries easily this on his roof but it is an expedition grade system.


                              So what I will be fitting soon to the car is:

                              Dual batt setup (100Ah Lithium - 12kg) with a 100W solar panel on the front of the roof rack (it weighs 6.4kg)
                              Moderate boot built - Possibly around 50kg? (modular build so can be removed when I wont be using the car for big trips)
                              2 x 10L water carriers (ridgemonkey) - one for clean water and one for grey water
                              35L Fridge - 14.8kg
                              Camping gear/dual stove/table - maybe around 20kg worth?
                              When you now start to factor in the weight of the vehicle occupants, their gear and food and you will see the weights climb quickly so a MD setup may be insufficient.

                              In regards to the suspension wheel alignment bolts, I will be honest and admit that mechanical work is really not my strongest point and I wouldnt even know where to start. Probably the best thing I could do is take the car to my local mechanic and have him check the bolts to see if they are seized or not.
                              Time to learn unless you have plenty of cash and a very trusted mechanic that knows Shogun/Pajero suspensions!
                              Have a look at the online Service Manual
                              http://faq.out-club.ru/download/paje...1/index_M1.htm

                              Scroll down the menu to Front Suspension - On Vehicle Service- Front Wheel alignment, and this will show you where and what to look for. There a 2 adjusters, one each side of the lower control arms that are the inboard pivots.
                              Then look at the Rear Suspension-On Vehicle Service-Rear Wheel Alignment section, there are 2 adjusters each side, camber adjustment is done on the inboard pivot of the lateral control arm just below and rear of the rear diff and the toe adjustment is done on the toe control arm that is inboard but forward of the diff.
                              If all goes well and I go ahead with the suspension lift - I will be changing the tires to 265/65/18. The car will still be used as a daily for a while until I buy an small electric car through my work scheme.
                              With these weights you should consider running light truck construction tyres.

                              I have noticed not many people talk about the Ironman4x4 suspension kits, is there a reason for this?
                              Same with other well advertised brands such as Tough Dog, Outback Amour, EFS, etc. etc.
                              These brands have a very mixed reputation but are "popular" because they provide or sponsor the off-road youtubers and pay for magazine reviews/advertising.

                              2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                              MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

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