Below Nav Bar Ad Module

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mods to reduce Engine Air Inlet and ATF temperatures.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mods to reduce Engine Air Inlet and ATF temperatures.

    "Pajero 12" has had problems when driving through deep sand, the lower section of the intercooler gets blocked with sand and the sand builds up between the trans and the Bushskinz plate. He detects elevated EAI and ATF temperatures on his Ultraguage. Even when all is clear both his ATF's and engine air inlet temperatures are always more than my Challenger when we travel together and compare temps.

    I have modified my Bushskinz plates on the Challenger to reduce the sand build and this has resulted in a reduction in both ATF and EAI temps so we thought we would look at what we could do to his NW Pajero fitted with a factory steel bar and full Bushskinz plates. So over a beer or 2 we made some cardboard templates and then when we were happy with the design we made them out of 4mm insertion rubber sheet and fitted them.

    There is a baffle that goes between the bullbar and the body to stop ram air escaping and turbulence forming in the gap between the lower section of the bulbar and the body.

    There is a baffle on each side of the front Bushskinz plate to stop ram air escaping out the sides and this forces the air through the intercooler an ATF cooler. We also taped over the "air vent" slots of the Bushskinz front plate with aluminium foil tape, by doing this it prevents sand from being driven through the slots and the theory based on my Challenger tests and mods was the slots actually have a negative effect on the cooling.

    There is a baffle each side of the forward Bushskinz transmission plate to stop sand building up in the void between the transmission and the plate, the sand is flicked up by the front wheels are turned either way off centre.

    Has it worked, YES and YES on both counts!

    On a recent trip to Peake not only where his temps lower but they recovered quicker on the highway at cruise speeds.

    In the deep sand, the build up in front of the intercooler and around the transmission was negligible.

    On the trip home we were travelling with "GeoPaj" who has an ARB bullbar and Bushskinz plates. I recorded a few figures during our comparison.

    Outside Air Temp 20C, 110kph.

    GeoPaj 45C EAI and 66C ATF
    Pajero 12. 34C EAI and 62C ATF
    OJ (Challenger). 35C EAI and 58C ATF

    Out of interest we stopped and taped over "GeoPaj's" front plate air vents and to my surprise his EAI temps jumped up to 59C within a few minutes, so we stopped and removed the tape covering the vents. When I taped over the vents on the Challenger there was a slight decrease in EAI temps but the Challenger Bushskinz plate sits at a much flatter angle so no ram air enters these air vents and I believe they act as a venturi, sucking ram air away from the intercooler. Not so on the Pajero though!

    "Pajero 12" has the templates and was going to draw these up and do a write up on the making and installation of these rubber baffles for anyone that is interested, he just needs a reminder.

    OJ.
    Last edited by old Jack; 29-12-17, 10:15 AM.
    2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
    MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

  • #2
    Very interesting. Out of curiosity have you mentioned any of this to Kieron?
    MY14 NW GLX-R 3.2L Auto Build Thread
    Fitted: 265/70R17 Kanati Mud Hogs. Ultimate Suspension HD Front EHD + bags rear. MM Towbar. OL Bullbar. SPV EGR Mod. Bushskinz Bash Plates x4. Roleys Rear Bar Protector. Icom IC-400Pro. Rhino Pioneer Tradie Rack. CTEK CTD250S w/ Dual Bats. Airtec Snorkel. Scangauge II. Blackvue Dash Cam. TC mod. Autosafe Half Barrier. Masten TPMS. Drifta Custom Drawers w/ Mounted Compressor. 47L ARB Fridge. Domin8rX Winch. Towing an MDC stepthrough.

    Comment


    • #3
      I seny Pajero12 a pm yesterday asking him if he could post a thread on his mods. Cheers

      Dicko FNQ


      2014 NW with all the usual stuff plus more.
      Having lots of friends on facebook is the same as having lots of money in monopoly...both meaningless.

      .

      Telegraph X camper

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm really interested in this. My NX has a TJM T13 ouback bar with winch and bushskinz plates, and I've listened to the scanguage alarm go off for >100C EAI temps on a 40+C day when at GVM climbing short hills on winding dirt roads at sub-50% throttle - an experience that I would prefer to avoid repeating.

        OJ - what do you see as the ram air pathway? Maybe a winch bar reduces it? Apart from the bushskinz slots in front of the intercooler, for my set up, the air flows throught the main grille above the bar, hits the radiator bow-wave, deflects 90 degrees down and squeezes through a gap in front of a lower cross-member to enter the void behind the bash plate. There would be higher pressure above the crossmember than below (in front of the intercooler), so the pathway seems convoluted and restricted.

        It looks like most ram would possibly come through the bushskinz slots - and maybe this is reflected by Geopaj's temp increase with the slots blocked - which may have resulted from reduced air pressure at the intercooler face. The OE bashguard design suggests that MM believes that highest pressure is generated by a path without bends - directly in front, with shields to guide it to the intercooler face. Or it could be much more complicated than that....

        Increasing frontal pressure and reducing spillage are sensible, but I faintly recall (could be wrong) that you explored/discussed decreasing pressure behind the intercooler to suck more air through, rather than forcing more air in. Did you have thoughts of pursuing that idea here as well?

        If I can convince my son to load me his GoPro, I might see if I can mount it with a view of the space in front of the intercooler with a set of tell-tales in place. I reckon that'd help us understand the air flow.
        Last edited by insect_eater; 08-12-17, 02:40 PM. Reason: a bit more stuff and some minor edits
        NX GLX manual, T13, XD9000, Koni RAID, Ultragauge, ISI carrier, pioneer platform, Lithium auxillary

        Comment


        • #6
          Two independent mechanics have told us the air flow path on the series 4 Pajeros is not the best from the factory.

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by BruceandBobbi View Post
            Two independent mechanics have told us the air flow path on the series 4 Pajeros is not the best from the factory.
            Factory set up is poor but as soon as you change to aftermarket bar and plates the airflow through the intercooler gets reduced further.

            OJ.
            2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
            MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

            Comment


            • #8
              My comments in your post below in "blue"
              When us Adelaide guys go away together we have very technical en-route and campfire discussions as many of the core group have mechanical and electrical/electronic backgrounds.

              OJ.

              Originally posted by insect_eater View Post
              I'm really interested in this. My NX has a TJM T13 ouback bar with winch and bushskinz plates, and I've listened to the scanguage alarm go off for >100C EAI temps on a 40+C day when at GVM climbing short hills on winding dirt roads at sub-50% throttle - an experience that I would prefer to avoid repeating.
              Does not surprise me, does the latest version of the Scangauge have alarms or do you have an Ultra Gauge?.

              OJ - what do you see as the ram air pathway? Maybe a winch bar reduces it? Apart from the bushskinz slots in front of the intercooler, for my set up, the air flows throught the main grille above the bar, hits the radiator bow-wave, deflects 90 degrees down and squeezes through a gap in front of a lower cross-member to enter the void behind the bash plate. There would be higher pressure above the crossmember than below (in front of the intercooler), so the pathway seems convoluted and restricted.
              "twisted 32" and I have previous looked at the slots in the Bushkinz plate whilst he was doing his Jonny Tig FMIC mod and we both agreed that the slots in the Bushskinz plate would be better and allow more ram air through if they were vertical rather than diagonal and horizontal, "twisted 32" is also an Aircraft Engineer so he too knows a little bit about air flow and how it behaves".

              Any split pan design bar will greatly reduce direct ram air flow to the intercooler, add a winch and the problems get worse. It may be possible to fit a deflector at a 45 degree angle to direct some air down towards the intercooler.

              It looks like most ram would possibly come through the bushskinz slots - and maybe this is reflected by Geopaj's temp increase with the slots blocked - which may have resulted from reduced air pressure at the intercooler face. The OE bashguard design suggests that MM believes that highest pressure is generated by a path without bends - directly in front, with shields to guide it to the intercooler face. Or it could be much more complicated than that....
              Certainly with a split pan bar design this is most likely the situation. I looked at if I could easily but a 25mm space between the cross member and the Bushskinz plate on the leading edge to see if it would give more direct ram air flow but the plate would need modifying to achieve this. MM is correct that direct ram air is better than ducted ram air but why did they mount the factory interccoler so low and behind the thumping great sway bar, if it was 100 mm higher it would have been less susceptible to damage and get better airflow.

              Increasing frontal pressure and reducing spillage are sensible, but I faintly recall (could be wrong) that you explored/discussed decreasing pressure behind the intercooler to suck more air through, rather than forcing more air in. Did you have thoughts of pursuing that idea here as well?
              I think it would be too difficult to suck air through the intercooler and this is why by fitting the side gussets to the Bushskinz plate it prevents the pressurised air in front of the intercooler from escaping via the sides and forces it through the intercooler.
              Maybe "geopaj" will get the design templates off "pajero 12", make and fit the side gussets and then do another test.
              "njswb" drilled an extra 100 or so holes in his Bushskinz front plate but I have not traveled with him since so I do not know what effect this has had on his temps.

              If I can convince my son to load me his GoPro, I might see if I can mount it with a view of the space in front of the intercooler with a set of tell-tales in place. I reckon that'd help us understand the air flow.
              That would be interesting to do, I suspect you will see very turbulent airflow which is not very good for passing through heat exchangers.
              Last edited by old Jack; 19-12-17, 08:07 AM. Reason: spelling correction
              2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
              MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

              Comment


              • #9
                Great discussion, watching with interest.
                2009 NT, 3.2 Auto, D/Lights & Light Bar, EGR mod, Sump and Inter Cooler Guards, Tow Bar, Bog Standard.

                Comment


                • #10
                  I have always thought about making wing guards using two sheets of aluminium and some angle brackets to block off the sides to prevent leakage and also have a leading edge to help trap air.
                  Please call me Vlad.
                  -----------------------
                  MY15 NX GLS - SPV EGR; Donaldson filter; Front sensors; Compass; DEI506T and DEI507M; LED interior and exterior lights; Blue LED step lights; 3T tow bar; 20% front & clear tint over privacy windows; Chrome handle protectors; 3x Bushskinz guards; Nudge bar; Hella Sharptones; Dual alarm horns; STEDI lightbar; TC mod loom; Paddles; ProVent 200; Dobinsons springs and MRR shocks; Bonnet struts. TBD - DIY rear skid plate; Air compressor; UHF.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Wondering if this would be better. Bit pricey though.

                    http://www.bashaaustralia.com/_p/prd...-a-b-2008-2015

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Thanks OJ. Yes ultragauge, not scan gauge.

                      I'll pursue the goPro idea, although it may just show it's all a mess under there. If it can give us a clue to the entry point for the highest pressure air or at least show where air bleeds to it might provide some clues as to how to trap that air. I'm particularly interested as to whether, in my situation (winch bar), the air also bleeds up to or down from the top pan / grille area (especially after the sides are boxed). Maybe a GoPro could at least tell me that.

                      In terms of the current bushskinz slots being better aligned vertically as they currently present little straight air path (the 10mm slots only look to have a 3mm straight air path when viewed at the level), maybe angle-cutting them would help a little too. I'm tempted to twist the centre of the slot bars to align them to face forward, and file a little from top and bottom of the untwisted ends, decreasing the frontal area of the bars, to present a larger opening for straight airflow. (This does assume that my frontal bar bow-wave turbulence rotor (or venturi effect) isn't sucking the air out of these slots out like what I understand that you suspect might be happening on your Challenger. Maybe the GoPro would answer this question - is the tell-tale in or out?)

                      My fluid dynamics physics terminology and theory may be askew - I'm drawing on half-recalled hang glider pilot training texts read 30+ years ago. Humour me, I mean just to contribute!
                      Last edited by insect_eater; 08-12-17, 07:03 PM. Reason: slight clarity improvement (it was worse before this, believe it or not)
                      NX GLX manual, T13, XD9000, Koni RAID, Ultragauge, ISI carrier, pioneer platform, Lithium auxillary

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by old Jack View Post
                        "njswb" drilled an extra 100 or so holes in his Bushskinz front plate but I have not traveled with him since so I do not know what effect this has had on his temps.
                        Nothing of huge significance. From memory, your EAI temps have always been better than mine, and the reports from Pajero12's mod are undoubtedly better. I don't remember the last time I travelled in convoy with somebody with unmolested Bushskinz, the factory intercooler and not towing.

                        I actually drilled the holes (128 x 3/8") about 2 years ago, and the best I have seen was about 18 degrees above ambient travelling at 100km/h - but most of the time I'm around 24 above ambient, which I suspect is because I can't get all the mud out (and because the bottom three rows are now mangled beyond usefulness).

                        I don't regret having done it, but I think "wings" are more likely a better "bang for buck" (or time) solution.

                        Edit: only 108 holes. 128 would be ridiculous.
                        Attached Files
                        NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 Toyo MT, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

                        Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

                        Scorpro Explorer Box

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          I have made a template up and will be working on the "wing" project over the weekend. Will be using, light steel, aluminum or thick plastic(whatever I can get hold of toady). Mate next door can get lazer cutting done so I will draw up what I consider to be a reasonable winglet , trace, cut and bolt to bash-plate. There will need to be 2 holes drilled into bash-plate and tapped for support. Will take photos and keep people informed...
                          Dicko FNQ


                          2014 NW with all the usual stuff plus more.
                          Having lots of friends on facebook is the same as having lots of money in monopoly...both meaningless.

                          .

                          Telegraph X camper

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Made and installed winglets this morning. Quite easy. Made from 6 mm polyethlyn cutting board from Woolworths. More than strong enough. Held in place by 50x50 x 3mm Aluminium angle. I drilled 2 holes in the bash plate and put nutserts into these to hold the aluminum bracket. Used a jigsaw to cut the board. 3 stainless pop rivets hold board to bracket.. Stainless bolts hold bracket to bashplate.Will do some testing over Xmas when I have a couple of long highway runs, pulling the camper. Outside temps should be around the 33-34 mark with high humidity si will be interesting to see how they go.
                            cheers
                            Attached Files
                            Dicko FNQ


                            2014 NW with all the usual stuff plus more.
                            Having lots of friends on facebook is the same as having lots of money in monopoly...both meaningless.

                            .

                            Telegraph X camper

                            Comment

                            Matched content

                            Collapse
                            Working...
                            X