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End of the line for Pajero - what car are you moving to next?

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  • #76
    I am keeping my NS until they run out of diesel... Buying new cars ever 5 years is not for me, yes things will change bit I ll be the last one to jump on that wagon.Mine just clicked over 450 000. And I am joking that engine has just run in.. hehe seriously. It drives like a new car, never ever left me on the side of the road.Yes pdf got me into limP mode couple of times and and abs module packed up but still every time I drove it home, legendary car.For the same reason my Chavelle 1968 and Commodore vc HDT will be with me until they run out of dinasour Juice... I guess I am dinasour too oh well not everyone wants to be Elon Musk, thanks 👍 but no thanks hybrid / electric BS Not my gig
    Last edited by pajerox; 27-10-21, 11:23 PM.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by catsman View Post
      Is no one looking to the Grenadier? I can't wait for that to drop
      Live axels, ladder chassis, boxy design, rear doors that don't open much, unproven. Everything that a Mitsubishi Pajero isn't. On paper it looks far more capable than a Pajero, but in my case, the Pajero is limited off road by the guy driving it.

      If I was to spend huge money on a hardcore offroader, it would be a G-wagen. If I was to spend a small amount of money on a hardcore offroader, I would start with a Gen 2 Pajero and upgrade it.
      2003 NP DiD Auto: 265/75R16 BFG A/T, dual batteries, 35mm lift TJM suspension, to do list that is more expensive than the truck

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      • #78
        For me I think the natural progression is a Toyota Fortuner. Like most others in this thread I long for a hydrogen 4wd. My advice to manufacturers is GO BIG from the start. Don’t make and market hydrogen 4wd going from Melbourne to a highway somewhere. The 1st media stunt should be across the Simpson (not a 20+ year future vision).
        2010 PB Challenger. Kings KCRR23 and 55H, sliders, front bar, warn winch, light force HID, 90L aux tank donated from NH Paj.

        1992 NH GLX, 2.5L TD. Tough Dog lift 2", Alpine Engineering IFS mod kit, DieselGas, Piranha dual battery, ARB bar with Warn M8000, Outlander roof rack & boat rollers, 10ft tinny with 6hp, GME TX4000 UHF & Electophone SSB CB, custom fridge slide & false floor, window tint & Airflow snorkel.

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        • #79
          I reckon one of the future possibilities might be to convert the trusty old truck to EV tech. something along the lines of what these guys are doing with old gen Land Rovers.
          https://www.jauntmotors.com/vehicles

          I am helping out with the local tech school where they have a team of about 10 secondary girls restoring and converting one with the help of Jaunt. The girls are doing an amazing job with it, removing rust, making patch panels, and repainting in general. Something these are doing differently is keeping the original gearbox/transfer/diffs. I am not sure how that will go long term, but it might provide an intermediate method to upgrade our paj's until something more practical comes along.
          cheers
          haggis
          92 NH GLS Pirahna dual battery system, Lightforce Blitz240 hid spots, cibie spreads, Bilstiens each corner, Lovells rear coils, custom drawer system, ARB roofrack, side awning, ARB twin jerry holder, MSA drop slide, GME TX3440, custom wiring harness for second battery.

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          • #80
            Only just bought a NT 3.5 with 300,000 + has a few issues and a lot of rattles, but she is mine for the time being.
            As for as electric vehicles, correct me if im wrong but they run on electricity, we do have solar and wind farms but the biggest producer of electricity is still fossil fuel. They will not be able to get electricity to fill batteries as quick as liquid fills a tank, not in the forceable future.

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            • #81
              I just did some calculations. A typical petrol pump can put through about 10 US Gallons per minute (38 L/min). The energy content of petrol or diesel is up to 46 MJ/kg. Specific gravity of petrol is 0.68 to 0.74, say 0.70. Thus, a petrol pump can deliver 38 x 46 x 0.7 = 1223 MJ/min. This is a bit over 20 MJ/Sec, which is 20 MegaWatts of energy. There is no way you could hand connect an electrical cable capable of carrying 20 MW (20000 kW).

              Putting it another way, a Lithium-Ion battery has an energy density of about 0.3 MJ/kg. Petrol and diesel have an energy density of 46 MJ/kg, so in order to store enough energy to travel say 100 km, you need about 15 kWh of stored energy. A battery with this capacity would have to be 54 kg, plus all the other electronics and the electric motor as well. That is to cover 100 km. My Pajero will cover over 1000 km on a tankful of diesel. I would need a battery well over 500 kg to provide enough power, and then it would need more power simply to drag the battery along as well.

              Useless information, but interesting just the same.

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              • #82
                Fuel-combustion is now about as efficient as it's ever going to get for passenger vehicles. Electrical storage and delivery technology is currently improving rapidly. You might not see it day to day in the car market, but it's there in other places.

                For example, gallium nitride based phone chargers are new in the last few years. They are much smaller, have higher throughput potential and lose almost nothing to heat. Batteries are improving too but car makers will want to see technologies proven in small devices before they go building a decade-long generation of vehicles around them. Many small gains will gradually add up to a product you want.

                We won't suddenly have 4WDs that go 1000+ km and charge in 1min, but we'll get there. Much more likely, all of the urban transport will gradually electrify and long ranging 4WDs will just stay with paleojuice until it's no longer economical.

                Many of us might also adjust our habits to suit a battery-powered world. Maybe you'll go somewhere closer to home. Maybe you'll plan a lunch stop around super-chargers, just like we used to take our V8 Land Rover to places where we knew we could get LPG. It could still run on petrol but we couldn't really afford to back then. It was either LPG or no holiday.

                Back to the original topic, the answer for me is a resounding, NFI. Hopefully my NX will last a long while. It'd quite possible that the next car I own hasn't even been designed yet. Coming from a Land Rover family, I've spent a decade hoping the new Defender would appeal but… yeah. That thing. Yeesh.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by erad View Post
                  I just did some calculations. A typical petrol pump can put through about 10 US Gallons per minute (38 L/min). The energy content of petrol or diesel is up to 46 MJ/kg. Specific gravity of petrol is 0.68 to 0.74, say 0.70. Thus, a petrol pump can deliver 38 x 46 x 0.7 = 1223 MJ/min. This is a bit over 20 MJ/Sec, which is 20 MegaWatts of energy. There is no way you could hand connect an electrical cable capable of carrying 20 MW (20000 kW).

                  Putting it another way, a Lithium-Ion battery has an energy density of about 0.3 MJ/kg. Petrol and diesel have an energy density of 46 MJ/kg, so in order to store enough energy to travel say 100 km, you need about 15 kWh of stored energy. A battery with this capacity would have to be 54 kg, plus all the other electronics and the electric motor as well. That is to cover 100 km. My Pajero will cover over 1000 km on a tankful of diesel. I would need a battery well over 500 kg to provide enough power, and then it would need more power simply to drag the battery along as well.

                  Useless information, but interesting just the same.
                  I think you are a bit off here. A car with a 50kWh battery can go way further than 100km.
                  Ball-park is 10kWh can give you about 80km of range

                  Edit: sorry misread your figures, you are pretty close but remember battery and storage technology is moving at a pretty good rate. Every other month you read about quite substantial battery capacity breakthroughs. We just have to wait until these come to fruition I guess..
                  Keithyv
                  Valued Member
                  Last edited by Keithyv; 4 days ago.
                  2014 NW MY14 3.2 DID GLX-R Auto. Champagne in colour!
                  MM Lockup mate. King KCRS-35 rear springs. Monroe Gas Magnum TDT rear shocks. 3M color stable tint all round. Spare wheel lift kit. 'Dynamat' in all doors. Pioneer AVH-Z5150BT Head Unit. Upgraded Speakers. Rear USB outlet. Factory nudge bar with LED light bar. Provent catch can. LED interior lights.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by erad View Post
                    I just did some calculations. A typical petrol pump can put through about 10 US Gallons per minute (38 L/min). The energy content of petrol or diesel is up to 46 MJ/kg. Specific gravity of petrol is 0.68 to 0.74, say 0.70. Thus, a petrol pump can deliver 38 x 46 x 0.7 = 1223 MJ/min. This is a bit over 20 MJ/Sec, which is 20 MegaWatts of energy. There is no way you could hand connect an electrical cable capable of carrying 20 MW (20000 kW).

                    Putting it another way, a Lithium-Ion battery has an energy density of about 0.3 MJ/kg. Petrol and diesel have an energy density of 46 MJ/kg, so in order to store enough energy to travel say 100 km, you need about 15 kWh of stored energy. A battery with this capacity would have to be 54 kg, plus all the other electronics and the electric motor as well. That is to cover 100 km. My Pajero will cover over 1000 km on a tankful of diesel. I would need a battery well over 500 kg to provide enough power, and then it would need more power simply to drag the battery along as well.

                    Useless information, but interesting just the same.
                    Modern diesel engines have 43-45% efficiency. Electric motor has efficiency around 85%. Throw in regeneritive braking and the energy capacity required for an electric vehicle is substantially less than diesel.

                    Electric charging infrastructure is easier to install than petrol, diesel, gas, etc therefore will be installed at more locations. I wish I could refill the Pajero while having a counter lunch at the pub and I suspect that others may feel the same way.
                    2003 NP DiD Auto: 265/75R16 BFG A/T, dual batteries, 35mm lift TJM suspension, to do list that is more expensive than the truck

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                    • #85
                      That 85% is battery to the wheels I'm assuming? From power generation to the wheels would be much lower, but so would petrol/diesel if you include from the oil in the ground to the wheels.

                      Difference with the infrastructure is we will require much more of it. While it takes 5 min to fill a car with petrol, I can't see us getting to the point of being able to fill a cars battery close to that time in the near future. Huge amounts of current needing huge conductors and connectors etc. So you'll have to have heaps more to suit the numbers of cars they want on the road. That will also require changes to the power network etc, which I'm assuming each government who decides we need electric cars will palm off to a future government

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                      • #86
                        There currently 350kWh chargers on the market but not all cars can charge at that rate.

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                        • #87
                          I'm guessing battery life would suffer at those high rates

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by disco stu View Post
                            That 85% is battery to the wheels I'm assuming? From power generation to the wheels would be much lower, but so would petrol/diesel if you include from the oil in the ground to the wheels.

                            Difference with the infrastructure is we will require much more of it. While it takes 5 min to fill a car with petrol, I can't see us getting to the point of being able to fill a cars battery close to that time in the near future. Huge amounts of current needing huge conductors and connectors etc. So you'll have to have heaps more to suit the numbers of cars they want on the road. That will also require changes to the power network etc, which I'm assuming each government who decides we need electric cars will palm off to a future government
                            I believe that is engine efficiency which is how much of the stored energy (battery potential or energy stored as diesel) is converted to work.

                            Vehicle batteries can charge at 600kW using todays technology. Batteries are limited by their cooling systems. Depending on the connection system, it can be quicker than going to a petrol station.

                            Electricity infrastructure covers a fair part of the country and requires minimal upgrade for most charging systems. Then there are solar panels and wind turbines. Huge conductors are not required because you transmit electricity at high voltage alternating current before converting it to high current direct current at the charger.

                            At least you don't need a truck to deliver more energy every week wasting more diesel and a truck drivers time.
                            2003 NP DiD Auto: 265/75R16 BFG A/T, dual batteries, 35mm lift TJM suspension, to do list that is more expensive than the truck

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by disco stu View Post
                              I'm guessing battery life would suffer at those high rates
                              8 year warranties on batteries (Toshiba) are better than Kia or Mitsubishi's warranties on vehicles.
                              2003 NP DiD Auto: 265/75R16 BFG A/T, dual batteries, 35mm lift TJM suspension, to do list that is more expensive than the truck

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                              • #90
                                Seems the thread is heading off topic.
                                Anyway, I am looking at my first Toyota 4wd. A 2022 GXL Fortuna will most likely replace the NT this year sometime.

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