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Mitsubishi MD crosses Simpson Desert in Outlander PHEV

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  • #31
    Yeah, that's my thought also-the actual future lies elsewhere

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    • #32
      Originally posted by disco stu View Post
      Saw a photo recently of a whole heap of electric cars that looked a few years old used by some French city. All are off the road now due to batteries dead and economically not viable to repair, so they were replaced
      This old trope?

      Click image for larger version

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      Don't believe everything posted on social media: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/el...ndoned-france/

      Not all are off the road - many were re-sold. These were trashed by users, and unsellable due to condition, not battery life.

      On the flip side, I once test drove a friend's Prius, when I was contemplating a hybrid. A few years later, it began randomly refusing to start - eventually, Toyota themselves couldn't make it start and couldn't explain what was wrong. It was scrapped, and she bought a Corolla - non hybrid. I don't recall it's age, or how its service life compared with anybody's theoretical model.

      I'm all in favour of sustainable futures, and reducing emissions. I'm not convinced that BEVs will save us. Money no object, I'd already have one in my garage - but it would only be one of many. I don't see one parking in my garage any time soon.
      NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 ST Maxx, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

      Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

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      • #33
        Originally posted by disco stu View Post

        I believe many car companies are assuming a 10 yr life on a vehicle and don't support after that, hence the use of that figure. Which frankly is pretty dismal

        I'm interested to see what the actual life span we see from batteries and the price of replacement. If those papers are assuming a longer life span then the info isn't really reliable.

        Saw a photo recently of a whole heap of electric cars that looked a few years old used by some French city. All are off the road now due to batteries dead and economically not viable to repair, so they were replaced
        Car batteries make excellent home batteries once the ampage drops too low to move the car from standstill safely. They have long lives. They can also be recycled.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by nj swb View Post

          This old trope?

          Click image for larger version

Name:	autolib.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	58.8 KB
ID:	1110514

          Don't believe everything posted on social media: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/el...ndoned-france/

          Not all are off the road - many were re-sold. These were trashed by users, and unsellable due to condition, not battery life.

          On the flip side, I once test drove a friend's Prius, when I was contemplating a hybrid. A few years later, it began randomly refusing to start - eventually, Toyota themselves couldn't make it start and couldn't explain what was wrong. It was scrapped, and she bought a Corolla - non hybrid. I don't recall it's age, or how its service life compared with anybody's theoretical model.

          I'm all in favour of sustainable futures, and reducing emissions. I'm not convinced that BEVs will save us. Money no object, I'd already have one in my garage - but it would only be one of many. I don't see one parking in my garage any time soon.
          Agree electric vehicles won't save us. The long-term solution is constructing society so we don't need to use cars as much. Working from home, electric buses, trams, trains and safe bike lanes. If that stops people driving their car 80% of the time that's a good thing. To stay at 1.5 degrees we need to be at net zero by 2035.

          We're going to be seeing some absolutely brutal fires and floods in the coming decades.

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          • #35
            Looked somewhat like that nj swb but wasn't that photo. The reason I didn't look further is that the story of batteries not lasting isn't unknown at all. Just like the stories of air bag going off so the car gets written off, as it's cheaper to get a whole new car with an air bag than to replace the air bag....for some stupid reason.

            We may Hartski, or we may not. From a scientist, the science isn't completely clear. There is a whole lot to all of this, but scientific law it certainly isn't. The best we can do is do the best we can do (to reiterate what nj swb said), but don't let alarmism mean bad decisions are made or that the solution is worse than the problem. Don't forget though, there is a hell of a lot more to the emissions than private cars or transport alone

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            • #36
              There's quite a bit going on in this thread. It's good to read such interesting and diverse - and polite - posts.

              The Outlander PHEV (any PHEV actually) looks like a decent option to reduce emissions if you live in the city or drive short distances each day. But maybe not a good option for driving across the country. I reckon the Simpson crossing support cars had a very good charger or two onboard and they charged the battery a lot as they went along. Maybe even during the day. I think the Outlander PHEV is FWD only when the battery is flat. I've never crossed the Simpson but I hope it's not so tame that you don't even need 4WD.

              On the other more important topic - I'm with hartski and everyone else who understands that we need to reduce emissions or we're all in big trouble. Not to be alarmist, but there's no guarantee the planet will stop warming at 1.5 or 2 or even 20 degrees. Positive feedback loops and planet-wide systems and uncertainty and all that. There's evidence that Venus once had water on it's surface before a runaway greenhouse effect cooked the planet. Venus is now 460 degrees C on the surface.

              So if PHEV's really do help with the transition then I'm all for them.
              NX GLX, Auto-mate Pro, Nudge bar, Stedi Light Bar, Vortex Racks, Sandgrabbas, Nautia Pocket, GotyaCovered and Wheelskins Covers, Konis, Aux Lithium Battery & Solar Panel, Kaon Table, Custom Rear, Less NVH than Factory

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              • #37
                Originally posted by DeeTee View Post
                There's quite a bit going on in this thread. It's good to read such interesting and diverse - and polite - posts.

                The Outlander PHEV (any PHEV actually) looks like a decent option to reduce emissions if you live in the city or drive short distances each day. But maybe not a good option for driving across the country. I reckon the Simpson crossing support cars had a very good charger or two onboard and they charged the battery a lot as they went along. Maybe even during the day. I think the Outlander PHEV is FWD only when the battery is flat. I've never crossed the Simpson but I hope it's not so tame that you don't even need 4WD.

                On the other more important topic - I'm with hartski and everyone else who understands that we need to reduce emissions or we're all in big trouble. Not to be alarmist, but there's no guarantee the planet will stop warming at 1.5 or 2 or even 20 degrees. Positive feedback loops and planet-wide systems and uncertainty and all that. There's evidence that Venus once had water on it's surface before a runaway greenhouse effect cooked the planet. Venus is now 460 degrees C on the surface.

                So if PHEV's really do help with the transition then I'm all for them.
                Don't forget that the Outlander is still a hybrid so the battery recharges from regenerative braking. I don't know how much charge you would get going down the dunes.

                I think PHEVs are a good option for a lot of the population while the charging infrastructure is being built particularly in regional areas. The are a good option for fleet vehicles as they will work even if someone forgot to plug it in overnight or could not get near a charger. If someone forgot to charge it and left it with an empty tank, you can rightly be pissed off.

                EVs and PHEVs are part of a solution and give options when active transport or public transport is not an option. As our coal fired power stations close (or shit themselves like the 3 causing the current crisis), we will see more renewables enter the market and further improve the benefits of EVs and PHEVs.
                2003 NP DiD Auto: 265/75R16 BFG A/T, dual batteries, 35mm lift TJM suspension, to do list that is more expensive than the truck

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                • #38
                  Just came across this video. Interesting that the figures he uses lines up with the John Cadogan figures.

                  https://youtu.be/S1E8SQde5rk

                  Figured with some of the questions asked here it was relevant and may answer some questions. Being an academic I'm assuming he has some literature you could get better figures from. Name is Dr Graham Conway. If I get a chance I'll see if he has written anything about this

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                  • #39
                    There is a handful of images circulating on the interwebs from the US of a yard full of Teslas that re needing new batteries that are not economical to upgrade, lots of these boneyards are appearing around the world and until battery packs come down in price and have longer lives it will continue to happen, hybrid tech is going ahead leaps and bounds and for my use case would be the only solution for me if dieso was to be replaced.

                    Maybe as a group with a brains trust like ours we could build a hybrid Pajero, surely we have the people with the knowledge
                    All the gear and some idea.....
                    MY15 NX GLS, AutoMate Pro, UltraGauge Mx1.4, Ironman Steel Bar, Kaon Intercooler & sump bashplates, Boos Rear bumper plate, KAON cargo barrier & shelf, Munji EGR delete cable, Provent catch can, Redarc BCDC 1220, 105a/Hr AGM 2nd battery, Snapshades (all rear glass) ........
                    Leave only footsteps & take only photographs

                    Leave the tracks & camps in better condition then you found them

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by grumpmeister View Post
                      Maybe as a group with a brains trust like ours we could build a hybrid Pajero
                      Still perplexes me MM didn't already do this 5 years ago or so. Could have been way ahead of the game, and they already had the experience with the hybrid outlander. Perhaps it didn't stack up for them financially
                      2003 NP Exceed 3.2 DiD manual

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by disco stu View Post
                        Just came across this video. Interesting that the figures he uses lines up with the John Cadogan figures.

                        https://youtu.be/S1E8SQde5rk

                        Figured with some of the questions asked here it was relevant and may answer some questions. Being an academic I'm assuming he has some literature you could get better figures from. Name is Dr Graham Conway. If I get a chance I'll see if he has written anything about this
                        I had seen that before and found it interesting but at least he states some of his assumptions. His calculations are based on the fact that people want (not to be confused with need) a 400 mile (690km) range. While conventional thinking says that you need the same range as the vehicle you currently have, the realities of EVs are that a shorter range is adequate for 95% of use. For the other 5% you have fast chargers. The reason we have the range that we do in conventional vehicles is that people don't want to go to the petrol station every 3 days. Every EV owner I know plugs their car in every time they go home and therefore start every day with a full battery.

                        His other assumption is that the electricity generation mix and therefore CO2 emissions will remain the same. You only need to look at the number of wind and solar farms under construction in Australia to know that renewables are taking over, even through a decade of federal Coalition government.
                        2003 NP DiD Auto: 265/75R16 BFG A/T, dual batteries, 35mm lift TJM suspension, to do list that is more expensive than the truck

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Shopping Trolley View Post

                          You only need to look at the number of wind and solar farms under construction in Australia to know that renewables are taking over, even through a decade of federal Coalition government.
                          Reneweconomy has interactive maps of all the solar, onshore and offshore wind, and battery projects in the country. It’s incredible to watch our entire grid transition to renewables.

                          There are big battery’s popping up all over the place.

                          https://reneweconomy.com.au/big-batt...-of-australia/
                          NX GLX, Auto-mate Pro, Nudge bar, Stedi Light Bar, Vortex Racks, Sandgrabbas, Nautia Pocket, GotyaCovered and Wheelskins Covers, Konis, Aux Lithium Battery & Solar Panel, Kaon Table, Custom Rear, Less NVH than Factory

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DeeTee View Post

                            Reneweconomy has interactive maps of all the solar, onshore and offshore wind, and battery projects in the country. It’s incredible to watch our entire grid transition to renewables.

                            There are big battery’s popping up all over the place.

                            https://reneweconomy.com.au/big-batt...-of-australia/
                            That's a great site and pretty encouraging. Thanks for the link.

                            I did note that the batteries map doesn't include Kidston Pumped Hydro which is under construction in Qld.

                            https://genexpower.com.au/250mw-kids...hydro-project/
                            Genex K2-Hydro is the flagship project of the Kidston Clean Energy Hub, located in Kidston, Far-North Queensland.
                            2003 NP DiD Auto: 265/75R16 BFG A/T, dual batteries, 35mm lift TJM suspension, to do list that is more expensive than the truck

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Shopping Trolley View Post

                              That's a great site and pretty encouraging. Thanks for the link.

                              I did note that the batteries map doesn't include Kidston Pumped Hydro which is under construction in Qld.

                              https://genexpower.com.au/250mw-kids...hydro-project/
                              It is very encouraging - although they do cover policy and the goings on in the industry and sometimes I just shake my head at all the shenanigans. It's really interesting to watch how the Sun Cable project is progressing. Sun Cable should be a game changer.

                              Pumped hydro seems to be lagging. There's only a few operating in Australia and not much of a pipeline. Great use for an old mine - we should have a few of them lying around. I reckon Giles will add a Pumped Hydro map when there's a story to tell. Kidston looks like a solid project.
                              NX GLX, Auto-mate Pro, Nudge bar, Stedi Light Bar, Vortex Racks, Sandgrabbas, Nautia Pocket, GotyaCovered and Wheelskins Covers, Konis, Aux Lithium Battery & Solar Panel, Kaon Table, Custom Rear, Less NVH than Factory

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by DeeTee View Post

                                It is very encouraging - although they do cover policy and the goings on in the industry and sometimes I just shake my head at all the shenanigans. It's really interesting to watch how the Sun Cable project is progressing. Sun Cable should be a game changer.

                                Pumped hydro seems to be lagging. There's only a few operating in Australia and not much of a pipeline. Great use for an old mine - we should have a few of them lying around. I reckon Giles will add a Pumped Hydro map when there's a story to tell. Kidston looks like a solid project.
                                I know of 1 other pumped hydro being proposed in Qld aiming to be operational in 2026. Qld Government has announced that they are looking for another.

                                With the price of large scale batteries coming down, they are looking like a more financially viable option. Large scale batteries have the advantage of being used to stabilise the power quality which in turn reduces the amount of generation required. The Tesla battery in SA makes more money correcting power quality than it does supplying power.
                                2003 NP DiD Auto: 265/75R16 BFG A/T, dual batteries, 35mm lift TJM suspension, to do list that is more expensive than the truck

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