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  • #31
    Originally posted by Shopping Trolley View Post

    Grumpmeister to answer your questions based on current technology;
    1. LTO batteries are capable of recharging at 600kW so under 30mins for the Rivian.
    2. 8 year warranty based on 100,000km per year (commercial use)
    3. BEV are far more recyclable than current ICE vehicles. Agree that there should be improvements.
    4. Utes and 4wds that need to tow 2.5T for 500km seems excessive. In reality very few people will actually do that without stopping. Disagree mate. Many people tow 2-3 tonne vans ..actually many thousand every day. I often tow 2 tonne and do 700klms a day...especially when touring and distances between cam sites is great. Many vans are well over 2.5 tonnes as well. Most farmers to well in excess of this weight at various times. Biggest selling points for all the twin cabs and suv,s is their ability to tow 3-3.5 tonne.


    With more fast chargers popping up, rural Australians will probably benefit most. Agree it's still a stretch for remote Australia.
    Dicko. FNQ

    2014 NW with all the usual stuff plus more.
    Some days your the dog...other days your the tree!!

    Telegraph X camper

    Comment


    • #32
      Would think the recycling of batteries or anything for that matter needs better Gov support. The price of new materials is cheaper than recycled, so imagine advancement in markets and technologies will always struggle unless helped out. No point making stuff recallable only to bury it because it can't get a start.

      Comment


      • #33
        Dicko I recognise that quite a few people tow big vans and agree with your comments in other posts about the excessive size of the vans. However they still represent a small part of the population. Most are also not in a busting hurry so a stop in a small town for coffee or lunch while charging isn’t a big ask. My parents can’t go 200km without a toilet stop let alone 500km. If every town has a few chargers it’s not a major problem.

        I don’t know enough farmers to comment on their towing requirements but they are used to being neglected by car makers and governments.

        The Rivian Ute can tow 3.5t.

        2003 NP DiD Auto: 265/75R16 BFG A/T, dual batteries, 35mm lift TJM suspension, to do list that is more expensive than the truck

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by jaffles View Post
          Would think the recycling of batteries or anything for that matter needs better Gov support. The price of new materials is cheaper than recycled, so imagine advancement in markets and technologies will always struggle unless helped out. No point making stuff recallable only to bury it because it can't get a start.
          Agree that better goverment support is needed but generally recycled metal is cheaper than new. There is also the environmental side of digging it out, processing it, sending it to China and back but we won't talk about that.
          2003 NP DiD Auto: 265/75R16 BFG A/T, dual batteries, 35mm lift TJM suspension, to do list that is more expensive than the truck

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Shopping Trolley View Post

            Agree that better goverment support is needed but generally recycled metal is cheaper than new. There is also the environmental side of digging it out, processing it, sending it to China and back but we won't talk about that.
            Yes a few things are I suppose, I got a load of broken up concrete delivered as drainage rubble recently. Is the recycled steel is made here or shipped off shore.

            Its my understanding however Apple's Iphone and Elon's Tesla exist due to the US government subsidies. If Aus put their mind to it house framing and trusses, architraves, floor sheeting, condute, possibly even roof tiles could all be made from recycled plastics. Maybe telegraph poles, and who knows what else. Think someone has already made a car panels for a car from new plastic, so maybe a recycled is possible if soft drink and water bottles are.

            I was looking at some finger joint skirting recently and they are down to 100mm these days. Good they are using everything, but a single species plantation forrest with little biodiversity and benefit to nature was once a fully functioning forrest with benefits not just for the humans. If you have been to Tassie and take a side rd past the 50m of road side bush you will get the picture.

            Had dinner recently with a couple with one with local council waste recycling, and the other in water. Thankfully in roads are being made but at a very slow pace, the amount that needs to be done is as big as the pile of rubbish they need to deal with. First world problems but all created by the clever humans also. Be nice to focus on our rubbish as much as we do finding more of the new.



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            • #36
              Originally posted by jaffles View Post

              Yes a few things are I suppose, I got a load of broken up concrete delivered as drainage rubble recently. Is the recycled steel is made here or shipped off shore.

              Its my understanding however Apple's Iphone and Elon's Tesla exist due to the US government subsidies. If Aus put their mind to it house framing and trusses, architraves, floor sheeting, condute, possibly even roof tiles could all be made from recycled plastics. Maybe telegraph poles, and who knows what else. Think someone has already made a car panels for a car from new plastic, so maybe a recycled is possible if soft drink and water bottles are.

              I was looking at some finger joint skirting recently and they are down to 100mm these days. Good they are using everything, but a single species plantation forrest with little biodiversity and benefit to nature was once a fully functioning forrest with benefits not just for the humans. If you have been to Tassie and take a side rd past the 50m of road side bush you will get the picture.

              Had dinner recently with a couple with one with local council waste recycling, and the other in water. Thankfully in roads are being made but at a very slow pace, the amount that needs to be done is as big as the pile of rubbish they need to deal with. First world problems but all created by the clever humans also. Be nice to focus on our rubbish as much as we do finding more of the new.


              Qld introduced a waste levy in 2019 which is making it cheaper to recycle many things like crushed concrete rather than take it to land fill. Steel is recycled in Australia and also shipped off shore for recycling. I don't think there is anywhere in the world that makes steel from 100% virgin material, most are 50% recycled steel. Recycling in taking off in Qld or at least catching up to other states. Recycling is also increasing in NSW because it is no longer cheaper to ship your waste to Qld. This is how government policy is supposed to work.

              BEV are subsidised and/or emissions taxed in most developed countries in the world. In Australia we subsidise commercial vehicles through instant tax write offs for small businesses. That's why we sell so many dual cab utes, it doesn't matter if your business has no need for a dual cab ute. We don't tax emissions and have no policy to improve vehicle emissions.
              2003 NP DiD Auto: 265/75R16 BFG A/T, dual batteries, 35mm lift TJM suspension, to do list that is more expensive than the truck

              Comment


              • #37
                Perhaps this article is where the future lay, a hybrid of E and Hydrogen. Even scope to mine methane from our land fill perhaps.
                With sales of electric vehicles increasing, do hydrogen fuel cell cars have a future on our roads?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by jaffles View Post
                  Perhaps this article is where the future lay, a hybrid of E and Hydrogen. Even scope to mine methane from our land fill perhaps.
                  Current thinking by many, is for city and suburban driving the electric vehicle is the best option but for long distance and heavy haulage then hybrid hydrogen electric is the best option for the foreseeable future. Green Hydrogen that is produced on location of sale from solar generated electricity, is likely to be more cost effective than bulk transport of hydrogen particularly where there is plenty of solar access.

                  OJ.
                  2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                  MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I'm wondering if we (Australia) will need much bulk hydrogen transport.

                    We need charging stations for electric vehicles across our road network, and in many places it makes sense to install solar arrays to generate the electricity.

                    Obviously, some storage will be required - possibly to meet peak demands, but also ensure recharging is available when the sun isn't shining. Batteries are the obvious answer - but are they the best answer?

                    Excess solar could be used to drive an electrolyser, to generate green hydrogen for storage. Run the hydrogen through a fuel cell to recharge a BEV, or pump it into the tank of a H2 FCEV - car, bus or truck. Who knows, perhaps there will be money to be made by over-generating hydrogen, and selling excess to hydrogen powered bulk tankers to take it somewhere that needs it.

                    Yes, the round trip of electrolyser to H2 and back to electricity is less efficient - but if we're talking renewable energy, how much does that matter? Solar electricity to charge a battery to charge a battery sounds a little silly in some respects, but most would accept it's perfectly sensible.

                    Yes, an electrolyser requires clean water. About 9 litres to generate 1 kg of hydrogen, which might get a small FCEV about 100 km. Say 50 litres of water to fill the tank of an average small FCEV, or 100 litres to fill the tank of a FCEV 4wd. I don't think that's an insurmountable problem, anywhere in this country.

                    Will this ever happen? I honestly don't know. But I'm watching with interest.
                    NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 ST Maxx, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

                    Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

                    Scorpro Explorer Box

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by nj swb View Post
                      I'm wondering if we (Australia) will need much bulk hydrogen transport.

                      We need charging stations for electric vehicles across our road network, and in many places it makes sense to install solar arrays to generate the electricity.

                      Obviously, some storage will be required - possibly to meet peak demands, but also ensure recharging is available when the sun isn't shining. Batteries are the obvious answer - but are they the best answer?

                      Excess solar could be used to drive an electrolyser, to generate green hydrogen for storage. Run the hydrogen through a fuel cell to recharge a BEV, or pump it into the tank of a H2 FCEV - car, bus or truck. Who knows, perhaps there will be money to be made by over-generating hydrogen, and selling excess to hydrogen powered bulk tankers to take it somewhere that needs it.

                      Yes, the round trip of electrolyser to H2 and back to electricity is less efficient - but if we're talking renewable energy, how much does that matter? Solar electricity to charge a battery to charge a battery sounds a little silly in some respects, but most would accept it's perfectly sensible.

                      Yes, an electrolyser requires clean water. About 9 litres to generate 1 kg of hydrogen, which might get a small FCEV about 100 km. Say 50 litres of water to fill the tank of an average small FCEV, or 100 litres to fill the tank of a FCEV 4wd. I don't think that's an insurmountable problem, anywhere in this country.

                      Will this ever happen? I honestly don't know. But I'm watching with interest.
                      Water in the coastal areas will not be a problem because they have worked out a way of extraction hydrogen from seawater.
                      https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/...013332.article

                      Water in the inland arid and semi arid areas of Australia are a bit more of a challenge, maybe our network of natural gas pipelines could be used to distribute hydrogen in the opposite direction once natural gas is no longer an energy source?
                      But what happens during the phase out/in from old to new?
                      Do we pipe seawater to inland Australia?
                      Is it more efficient to pipe hydrogen than water?
                      Will all this happen by 2050?
                      Will it happen in our life time?

                      In the 1960's I can remember there was a proposal to dig a canal north to south from the Gulf of Carpentaria south to Port Augusta in SA, via Lake Eyre, the thinking was that over time and the distance the seawater inland would become fresh water from the resulting change in climate and increased rainfall, and increase the inflow into the Great Artesian Basin.

                      OJ.
                      2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                      MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        NJ, just thinking if we are happy with 40% efficiency for a fossil fuel donk, anything above that using renewables is bonus.

                        OJ, Artesian water perhaps.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by jaffles View Post
                          NJ, just thinking if we are happy with 40% efficiency for a fossil fuel donk, anything above that using renewables is bonus.
                          Hi Jaffles, I'm with you 100%. But some of the more rabid Tesla fanbois are critical of hydrogen FCEVs for the reduced efficiency. And Mr Musk doesn't like them because he can't use them on Mars.

                          NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 ST Maxx, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

                          Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

                          Scorpro Explorer Box

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